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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Plagues of Night.
Outstanding 57 51.82%
Above Average 35 31.82%
Average 11 10.00%
Below Average 5 4.55%
Poor 2 1.82%
Voters: 110. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 27 2012, 09:49 PM   #136
Dimesdan
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
i have to ask, is it really necessary to post stuff about Plagues of Night in spoiler code when the thread has spoilers in the tittle?
Apparently yes.
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Old May 28 2012, 05:13 AM   #137
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Of course not. I've already said -- what's at issue here was not whether Sisko's actions were objectively right (because it's ridiculous to insist that fictional characters should never be allowed to make mistakes), but whether his motives were in character and understandable. The point is that he was absolutely convinced that he had to leave his family in order to protect them, therefore it's a damn lie to call him a deadbeat who abandoned them for selfish reasons. Even if what he did was wrong, he did it for what he believed were the right reasons. How many times does that have to be repeated?

We're objecting to the accusations that his motives were somehow selfish or callous toward his family, because that is a profound misreading of the text. It is possible to disagree with someone's choices but still believe in his good intentions.
I think what it comes down to as the source of our disagreement at least is what you see as mutually incompatible - his motives being right and his actions being abandonment - I see as not incompatible. Intentions matter, they matter vitally, but so do the results that actions have on other people.

Maybe analogizing to take it out of this particular context? Let's suppose I say something which you find very insulting or hurtful, but which I didn't intend as such and my motives for saying it weren't negative. I can't just say "Well, my motives weren't to hurt you, therefore you weren't hurt" - hurt is a personal thing and my motives aren't what determine that. Now, I can say "I'm sorry, it wasn't my intent to hurt you, here's what I actually meant and I hope you can see that," but the action I took affected you in a way independent of my intent. Pretending you weren't insulted or that you don't have the right to be insulted is missing the point. Intent hopefully correlates with reception, but not always. That's why I say that, while Sisko's motive wasn't to abandon Kas, his actions were that in fact, in the same way that while my intent wasn't to insult you my action was in fact insulting. Does that make sense?

Thanks for linking back Dave's posts, btw... well, and Sho.

Dimesdan wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
i have to ask, is it really necessary to post stuff about Plagues of Night in spoiler code when the thread has spoilers in the tittle?
Apparently yes.
I'd rather be safe and not get yelled at than sorry, but I'd be happy to talk openly about Plagues.

I gave it "Outstanding" because while I still have my quibbles overall I thought it was excellent and the storylines involving all the other characters were great - and I mostly enjoyed the Sisko one too and can't deny it was really well-written.
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Old May 28 2012, 08:29 AM   #138
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

So, getting back to discussing the current book…

Regarding spoilers, the last chapter of this book is pretty stunning and climatic so I think spoiler code is appropriate. It's not so much a cliffhanger as an utter game changer.



I read the book cover to cover in one sitting. It was pretty exciting overall, although it had to recap a lot of previous activity. Considering that people don't buy all the books (especially the eBook that I didn't know existed), I thought the exposition was OK and it better helped shape the timeline of the previous Typhon Pact books. It also did a good job of presenting events detailed in the previous books from the perspective of other participants (such as the raid on Utopia Planitia).

The story incorporated many of the elements of previous DS9 stories that I liked, even touching on the previous exploration of the Gamma Quadrant and the fallout from the "Worlds of Deep Space Nine" series. I thought it involved nearly all contemporary Trek crews pretty well, although neither Voyager nor the Aventine crews make appearances.

Oh, and since it seems to be a huge topic of discussion, I think the novel handled the repercussions from Sisko's decision to leave his family reasonably well (which contributes to the ending). It's not perfect, but the whole arc of the Prophets not talking to Sisko still seems a little odd to me.

The book provides some tantalizing glimmers of what happened on Deep Space Nine before the Borg invasion, but no conclusive answers. Taran'atar, the Even Odds, Iliana Ghemor and the Ascendants get passing mentions, as well as an additional reference to the disaster befalling one of Bajor's moons. I'd like future stories to address these elements and I hope writers will get to tackle them someday.

Overall, I think this book incorporated much of the intrigue of the previous Typhon Pact novels, but doesn't get bogged down in it. Instead, it adds an epic scope of developments covering three quarters of the galaxy. I definitely would like to read more.
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Last edited by RTOlson; May 28 2012 at 08:34 AM. Reason: Adding more comment.
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Old May 28 2012, 10:05 AM   #139
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

It's post like the one above that make it really hard for me to not click the spoiler tags... 5-7 days before this book arrives.
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Old May 28 2012, 03:22 PM   #140
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

All I know is, I'm kind of glad everyone's kept things behind the spoiler codes in spite of the warning in the title, because I'm ordering Plagues of Night for my brand-new Nook instead of trying to snag a physical copy... and my eBook won't arrive until tomorrow!
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Old May 28 2012, 07:21 PM   #141
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

"Outstanding" five times out of five is a promising start voting-wise (since we know the other two votes to be bogus).
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Old May 28 2012, 08:31 PM   #142
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Actually, I voted for "Above Average." While I enjoyed the book, I try to reserve the "Outstanding" vote for the most superior works. Also, this book could be viewed as part one of a duology, so I may revise my vote at the end of book 2.
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Old May 28 2012, 11:03 PM   #143
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

^ Right, sorry. For some reason I thought a second person had come forward with an accidental vote, but I can't actually find the post now.
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Old May 29 2012, 12:06 AM   #144
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Gonna head out to Barnes and Noble tomorrow to see if they got it.
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Old May 29 2012, 03:29 AM   #145
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Should I read Seize the Fire and The Struggle Within before I start Plauges? I'm definitely going to read those either way, I'm just dying to see what brings about the spoilers that people have posted about the end of the book, and wanted to know if I'd miss anything important to PoN if I jumped right into it.
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Old May 29 2012, 06:53 AM   #146
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Don't need to read Seize the Fire, it's referenced but very briefly and has no real affect on the story. Don't know about The Struggle Within, I haven't read that one myself since it didn't get dead-tree format. At some point I need to remedy that...
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Old May 29 2012, 10:33 AM   #147
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Someone remind me has Sisko tried the obvious talk to the prophet method, fly into the wormhole.
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Old May 29 2012, 12:55 PM   #148
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

He has.

He has also tried consulting an Orb.
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Old May 29 2012, 03:14 PM   #149
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Lol I would say fake attempt a suicide since they want him alive but then again they can see the future so that is not going to work.
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Old May 29 2012, 06:01 PM   #150
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Re: Typhon Pact: Plagues of Night by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I've just this second finished it. I voted "Average", and thought it was a step down from the excellent Rough Beasts of Empire. Too much of the novel felt like just a bunch of stuff happening, rather than a story (or stories) unfolding. If that makes sense. But still worth the read and I'm looking forward to Raise the Dawn.

BTW, I guessed right about the ending! I can't be bothered to find the thread, but I guessed right.
Although.... now I've read it...
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