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Old May 26 2012, 09:44 PM   #46
CoveTom
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

Ezri D wrote: View Post
She was not that important during DS9, just a wife and a mother.
I really hope you mean that differently than how it is phrased...
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Old May 27 2012, 03:22 AM   #47
Kestrel
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

exodus wrote: View Post
The woman IS the dominate one.
Seriously, it doesn't matter what bills you pay or how strong you are, if you do something really wrong, your woman WILL chase you out your own house!


Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
And if O'Brien acted that way to her, he'd be a bastard, plain and simple. So no, no double standard here.
And what way is that?
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Old May 27 2012, 04:07 AM   #48
Tulaberry whine
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

exodus wrote: View Post
Actually, I wanna know how many of those that are Kieko haters are married themselves?
I'm kind of curious myself because I don't recall to many instances where Keiko wasn't anything short of a saint when it came to O'Brien and his behaviour.

Let's not forget, half the time he was on DS9 he was carrying on like a frat boy while she was at home raising the kids. I mean, how many times did we see Keiko out playing darts or hanging out in the holosuites while O'Brien was at home with the babies?

And it seems to me some of the tiniest things are being blown out of any and all proportion. Not wanting to eat a potato casserole or being annoyed at your husband for carrying on like a total ass during the birth of your own son does not make somebody a raving 'bitch'.
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Old May 27 2012, 04:20 AM   #49
Nerys Ghemor
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

Kestrel wrote: View Post
Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
And if O'Brien acted that way to her, he'd be a bastard, plain and simple. So no, no double standard here.
And what way is that?
Criticizing every move she made, belittling her career (especially if he were the military spouse who should've know what he was getting into when he got married, and decided if he could deal with that for better or for worse, or not), and constantly making "jokes" about how she'd better not cheat on him, as if automatically assuming the intention to cheat is there. I would find O'Brien unwatchable if the exact same behaviors were taken and then scripted onto him, if all he ever did was try to break her down.

Personally, I think that couple either never should've married, or should've gotten a divorce. :-/

It is possible the situation is touchier for me because I have close family members with a destructive marriage where one has been psychologically destroying the other for years.
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Old May 27 2012, 04:35 AM   #50
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

gazomg wrote: View Post
other shows where she was a bitch, like law and order CI.
Ain't that the truth. Anyone who thinks Keiko was bad, just check out that episode!

("Cadaver" from Season 10)

As for Keiko, the biggest problem I had with the character was when she first decides to be a teacher, just because she's never done it before, like it's a damn hobby or something. What's next, is she going to decide she's an Admiral or something?
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Old May 27 2012, 04:49 AM   #51
DonIago
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

Well, based on the majority of the admirals we've seen...
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Old May 27 2012, 04:58 AM   #52
xylem
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

keiko becoming a teacher didn't strike me as strange at all. In many ways, DS9 was like an early pioneer context... they didn't have schools or school boards (or even that many children to attend). So, like early one-room school-houses, if a school was needed and someone was willing to do the teaching, voila - they were a teacher.

And, frankly, at a university-level, things are currently much the same way. Profs don't, by and large, have any teaching training or teaching licenses. Especially in science fields, profs are hired primarily to do research. Then they're thrown into the classroom and expected to know how to teach. They *might* (if they went through a program like my own) have had opportunity to be a teaching assistant for a few years (i.e. to have graded papers and exams)... but many (most?) will have never designed a course from scratch before.

So, Keiko is at least as qualified as many of the profs that teach our students today!
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Old May 27 2012, 05:52 AM   #53
Kestrel
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
Criticizing every move she made, belittling her career (especially if he were the military spouse who should've know what he was getting into when he got married, and decided if he could deal with that for better or for worse, or not), and constantly making "jokes" about how she'd better not cheat on him, as if automatically assuming the intention to cheat is there. I would find O'Brien unwatchable if the exact same behaviors were taken and then scripted onto him, if all he ever did was try to break her down.
Yeah, I'm really not seeing these constant unending behaviors you're talking about.

Nerys Ghemor wrote: View Post
It is possible the situation is touchier for me because I have close family members with a destructive marriage where one has been psychologically destroying the other for years.
Sorry to hear that, but I don't think you can map Miles and Keiko in the same way.

DonIago wrote: View Post
Well, based on the majority of the admirals we've seen...


Sisko: "Gentlemen, meet Admiral Keiko O'Brien."

Everybody else: "Oh thank god, an Admiral with a brain!!!"
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Old May 27 2012, 01:25 PM   #54
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

JustKate wrote: View Post
I like her and I like the role she played in the show - an actual married couple on Trek, what do you know? I know lots of people don't like her, but I don't get it.
That's me in a nutshell. I loved Keiko and I never got the disproportional hate she gets on this boards. It's kind of absurd, really.
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Old May 27 2012, 02:19 PM   #55
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

NCC-1701 wrote: View Post
That's me in a nutshell. I loved Keiko and I never got the disproportional hate she gets on this boards. It's kind of absurd, really.
Must be all the Trekkie guys wishing they had a wife as pretty as Keiko, and the Trekkie gals wishing they had a husband as steadfast and firm as O'Brien.

[QUOTE=Nerys Ghemor;6402694]
Kestrel wrote: View Post
Criticizing every move she made, belittling her career (especially if he were the military spouse who should've know what he was getting into when he got married, and decided if he could deal with that for better or for worse, or not), and constantly making "jokes" about how she'd better not cheat on him, as if automatically assuming the intention to cheat is there. I would find O'Brien unwatchable if the exact same behaviors were taken and then scripted onto him, if all he ever did was try to break her down.
The only time O'Brien was an real a-hole to Keiko was in Fascination, but even O'Brien realised he crossed the line as show in this script taken from Fascination:

Look, you're right. I'm an idiot, sometimes. When I don't get my way, I can be selfish and childish and pigheaded. I know I've said some pretty stupid things today. I wish I could take them back. (really hurting)

But even if it's too late for that, there's one thing you should know... I love you, Keiko. I always have, and I always will. (a beat)

Anyway, I just want you to know I've left a letter of resignation on Commander Sisko's desk. I'm ready to move down to Bajor tomorrow, if you'll have me. And after that if you want us to move back to Earth that's okay too. I'll do whatever it takes... I just don't want to lose you.

It's such a sweet scene and it shows, when push comes to shove, that O'Brien will do almost anything to make it up to Keiko. Those are the words of a man grovelling to his wife and begging for her forgiveness. It scenes like that which make the Keiko/O'Brien pairing so sweet and powerful. It's why I love both these characters because they're treated not in a soap opera way, but instead confronted with very real issues that many couples face: moving home, changing jobs, who will take care of the children.

If you don't like that, that's fine. But I'm merely trying to explain what is so great about Keiko (and O'Brien).
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Old May 27 2012, 04:00 PM   #56
ElimGarak
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

Wasn't it obvious that she was whoring it up on bajor on her "botany excursions"?
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Old May 27 2012, 04:57 PM   #57
Admiral James Kirk
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

Ln X wrote: View Post
Kestrel wrote: View Post
I wonder if this isn't part of the 'problem'?

"OMG the woman is the dominant one?! What the hell she's a BITCH!!!"
Picard's palm to the face... There's only one bitch I know of in the Star Trek universe and that's Kai Winn. I'm pretty certain everyone will agree that Keiko and Winn are NOTHING alike!
Wrong. They're both bullheaded and intolerant. Still... I like Winn better.
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Old May 27 2012, 05:44 PM   #58
Kestrel
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

ElimGarak wrote: View Post
Wasn't it obvious that she was whoring it up on bajor on her "botany excursions"?
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Old May 28 2012, 02:47 AM   #59
exodus
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

Tulaberry whine wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Actually, I wanna know how many of those that are Kieko haters are married themselves?
I'm kind of curious myself because I don't recall to many instances where Keiko wasn't anything short of a saint when it came to O'Brien and his behaviour.

Let's not forget, half the time he was on DS9 he was carrying on like a frat boy while she was at home raising the kids. I mean, how many times did we see Keiko out playing darts or hanging out in the holosuites while O'Brien was at home with the babies?

And it seems to me some of the tiniest things are being blown out of any and all proportion. Not wanting to eat a potato casserole or being annoyed at your husband for carrying on like a total ass during the birth of your own son does not make somebody a raving 'bitch'.
Exactly!!!
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Old May 29 2012, 05:38 PM   #60
Ezri D
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Re: Does anyone else dislike Keiko O'brien?

CoveTom wrote: View Post
Ezri D wrote: View Post
She was not that important during DS9, just a wife and a mother.
I really hope you mean that differently than how it is phrased...

There are a number of fans that say the character of Ezri Dax was not that important. Even to say, they wished that Jadzia Dax was not replaced. Have to say, Keiko was less important then Ezri. Therefore, I do not have a problem with my comments.
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