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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Future of Trek

Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old May 23 2012, 02:42 AM   #76
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

horatio83 wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
horatio83 wrote: View Post
Making Trek just dark would obviously be heresy,
Nah, TOS was pretty dark at times when you remember that in the show a planet with billions of people could be snuffed out at any moment from either doomsday weapons, or space monsters, or bored godlike beings.

Not to mention all the energy being or other aliens who use people as meat puppets or just plain toys for their own twisted amusement.

Then there are the things that literally suck the life out of people.

Also the fact that the universe will explode if two guys locked in mortal combat ever both show up in the universe.

Not to mention the the Federation was always pretty close to war with the Klingons which is usually describe as something that would be devastating.

Oh and if your in Starfleet and assigned to a ship that is not the Enterprise chances are you will die a horrible death in the empty void of space. And even if you are on the Enterprise chances are the first time you visit an alien planet you will die and in some cases quiet horribly.

Then there's the fact that everyone is one trip to the galactic barrier away from dealing with a rampaging mad god.

Seriously all the show needs at this point to go totally Lovecraft is the appearance of godlike aliens who either drive you mad or mutate you. Which were probably hiding on some rock out there somewhere.

So what was that about Star Trek being a Utopia again?
When people talk about darkness they do not refer to the horrible situations the people of the Federation might find themselves in but their basic attitude which is, as Sindatur has pointed out, neither depressed, cynical or desperate.
Thats because nobody has really given a though to the type of world they live in.

Or they're on something, I mean the people in the future don't feel grief thing makes me think they were on something.

Not to mention how after a situation where billions died Kirk and co. were doing a happy jokey ending.
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Old May 23 2012, 04:48 AM   #77
AggieJohn
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Define a darker theme. I think it has been pointed out that TOS had some darker themed episodes. Really its about a willingness to write an episode that is not afraid to hit at core issues, things that your argue sides with your friends after the show airs. Its not just about sex and violence. Star Trek has made us think in the past. I would love to see some "real" characters, people that can find a bright side in a dark world. Who when everyone else is running away they are running in, when all is lost then rise up as a beacon of hope. In a lot of ways the Enterprise and her crew symbolize the best possibility of humanity. I don't want to cheapen it for the "sake" of grit. Rather I would like to see how "normal" people rise to do something great. Face difficult situations in which technology can't bail them out.
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Old May 23 2012, 03:24 PM   #78
horatio83
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Thats because nobody has really given a though to the type of world they live in.

Or they're on something, I mean the people in the future don't feel grief thing makes me think they were on something.

Not to mention how after a situation where billions died Kirk and co. were doing a happy jokey ending.
I do not follow you here. In which episodes did people not feel grief or sadness although they normally should have?
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Old May 24 2012, 04:23 PM   #79
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

I would not mind to see a very darker federation. The problem I see it, most have talked about issues that would be very limited and would come to an end the first season. If it is going to be darker then even DS9, it would not be thought a good series unless it last the stardard time of 7 seasons. If they come up with a new series that last as long as Enterprise, it would be thought a second and final flop.

Maybe something dealing with a federation civil war, and ending a a war or as close as it can get. Still, it has to have some positive with it. Like to get people interested, like the first same sex marriage in a star trek show or a movie. People in science fiction like the dark side, but it cannot always be about the darkness.
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Old May 24 2012, 06:39 PM   #80
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Star Trek's core identity is that its tone is "neither depressed, cynical or desperate." That's a pretty loose core identity which allows for a wide range of storytelling styles and topics.

Any franchise has to have some organizing principle - it can't just be "any bunch of people in a starship" - or else it has no meaningful identity, so what justifies using the same name other than crass business interests? Even McDonald's knows that when people walk through their doors, they expect to see burgers on the menu and not sushi.

Star Trek can depict dire and horrifying situations. But the attitude of Our Heroes must always stay within a basically positive zone, and become an angst-ridden navel-gazing self-flagellating wallow, a la nuBSG. That seems like an eminently fair compromise between hanging onto an identity and allowing for plenty of artistic latitude.
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Old May 25 2012, 09:30 AM   #81
Sjaddix
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Well with nuBSG the problem was I am not sure there was one reedamble person left by the end of that mess. A few characters falling to angst sure, the whole cast no thanks.
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Old May 27 2012, 04:35 AM   #82
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

horatio83 wrote: View Post
I do not follow you here. In which episodes did people not feel grief or sadness although they normally should have?
Changeling, couple of security folks got vapor'ed ...

followed by Kirk's "my son the doctor (killed a couple of my crew)" joke.

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Old May 27 2012, 06:56 PM   #83
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

How about DS9?

Ziyal gets brutally murdered, next week, the gang is having a zany Klingon wedding!

Odo betrays everyone by siding with the enemy, but magically there are no repercussion. He even gets his old job back - as head of security!

The Federation has been embroiled in a horrible galactic war for years, yet that doesn't stop the entire senior staff from becoming obsessed with a holosuite baseball tournament. Lucky for them the Dominion didn't choose that time to attack.

And DS9 was the series with continuity.
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Old May 27 2012, 11:41 PM   #84
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

horatio83 wrote: View Post
Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
Thats because nobody has really given a though to the type of world they live in.

Or they're on something, I mean the people in the future don't feel grief thing makes me think they were on something.

Not to mention how after a situation where billions died Kirk and co. were doing a happy jokey ending.
I do not follow you here. In which episodes did people not feel grief or sadness although they normally should have?
Well that was really a TNG thing actually.
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Old May 28 2012, 05:17 PM   #85
horatio83
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

In the last episode of the first season Crusher said something about people no more being afraid of dieing so yeah, TNG definitely felt sometimes a bit too Asimovian, cold and unemotional, but in the third season when TNG changes significantly it became a bit warmer but also a bit too soapish.
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Old June 5 2012, 01:27 PM   #86
DarthTom
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

SuperXPS wrote: View Post
DarkER?
Darker than a Bog Invasion causing billions of deaths and almost wiping out every race inthe Alpha and Beta Quadrants?
Darker than political assasination to manipulate trends in a war?
Darker than genocide?
Darker than Section31?
99% of the time though, Trek major actors are always the morally upstanding people fighting the evil corrupt dark people. The one notable exception are Janeway trying to kill that ensign for information.

Even Sisko when he threatened to destroy the biosphere of a planet backed off and it's unclear if he would have gone through with it.

Trek characters are rarely if ever the darker figures. Times have changed, I agree with the OP - audiences demand more complex characters today than in the past.
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Old June 7 2012, 02:06 AM   #87
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

DarthTom wrote: View Post
SuperXPS wrote: View Post
Darker than political assasination to manipulate trends in a war?
99% of the time though, Trek major actors are always the morally upstanding people fighting the evil corrupt dark people.
But wasn't the assassination, ultimately, the moral thing to do? No, Sisko didn't come out of the experience feel warm and fuzzy about himself, however as a consequence of his (and others) action, Sisko's community wasn't destroyed or subjugated. Casualties within his community were lower.

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Old June 7 2012, 04:38 AM   #88
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

DarthTom wrote: View Post
SuperXPS wrote: View Post
DarkER?
Darker than a Bog Invasion causing billions of deaths and almost wiping out every race inthe Alpha and Beta Quadrants?
Darker than political assasination to manipulate trends in a war?
Darker than genocide?
Darker than Section31?
99% of the time though, Trek major actors are always the morally upstanding people fighting the evil corrupt dark people.
You say that like it's a bad thing. What's wrong with it?
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Old June 9 2012, 06:17 PM   #89
Hartzilla2007
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

DarthTom wrote: View Post
Even Sisko when he threatened to destroy the biosphere of a planet backed off and it's unclear if he would have gone through with it.
Um, he had just gone through with it not two seconds ago all he backed down from doing was going after the rest of the Maquis colonies after Eddington surrendered which was what he wanted in the first place.
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Old June 13 2012, 06:05 AM   #90
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

I think you can darker situations and still have a likable cast of main characters. There some things from past Star Trek shows that should be left in the past:

1. The no mourning rule: Death has to mean something in fiction, as it does in real life. Having people not mourn, makes them robot not people. Death has to be something with a real impact, not something that is dismissed right away.

2. No inter personal conflict: People are always going to have different ideas to deal with a problem, having everyone agree all the time makes it seem like Star Fleet promotes group think.

3. No more pat solutions to moral dilemmas. A moral dilemma has to be a tough choice, making the best choice in a situation. Dressing up a black and white situation as a moral dilemma is not going to work anymore.
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