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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old May 18 2012, 03:07 AM   #16
Violet.Phoenix
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

exodus wrote: View Post
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You're not considering their mind set upon assimilation.
Picard wasn't prepared for it, the Borg took him against his will.
Janeway gave herself to them willingly. She was already mentally prepared for the assimilation and de-assimilation process. The Borg bent Picard to their will, Janeways mind was never fully connected to the collective. So Janeway her will was still her own. Unlike Picard or Sisko, Janeway didn't fear the Borg. Thanks to Picard and other captains that faced the Borg, it gave her enough insight to know how to circumvent them.
Yes Janeway was mentally prepared and did give herself up willingly for assimilation. She also had a neural suppressant to prevent herself and her away team from being connected to the hive mind, but that does not mean that being turned into a drone was not a horrific experience. Mentally the trauma was minimized due to that preparation, but I doubt that any amount of preparation can minimize the physical trauma.
We've seen many times in Trek that doesn't happen.
We've seen Picard have major heart surgery and walk out the door right after it was done like nothing happened. We've seen Harry Kim walk away from an 8472 infection with no lasting trauma. The only time I can recall seeing physical trauma in Trek is when someone looses a limb or spinal surgery.
That's true. Although I was referring to the physical changes having an emotional effect on them, so my apologies for not clarifying that. Going through a sort of experience like that, despite any sort of mental preparation would likely have emotional repercussions. You may not agree with me, but I just cannot believe that there would be no emotional trauma after being assimilated.
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Old May 18 2012, 03:17 AM   #17
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post

Yes Janeway was mentally prepared and did give herself up willingly for assimilation. She also had a neural suppressant to prevent herself and her away team from being connected to the hive mind, but that does not mean that being turned into a drone was not a horrific experience. Mentally the trauma was minimized due to that preparation, but I doubt that any amount of preparation can minimize the physical trauma.
We've seen many times in Trek that doesn't happen.
We've seen Picard have major heart surgery and walk out the door right after it was done like nothing happened. We've seen Harry Kim walk away from an 8472 infection with no lasting trauma. The only time I can recall seeing physical trauma in Trek is when someone looses a limb or spinal surgery.
That's true. Although I was referring to the physical changes having an emotional effect on them, so my apologies for not clarifying that. Going through a sort of experience like that, despite any sort of mental preparation would likely have emotional repercussions. You may not agree with me, but I just cannot believe that there would be no emotional trauma after being assimilated.
No, I do agree but even going by DS9's "Hard Time", emotional and physical trauma in Trek only last until the end of each episode.......but then again, we shouldn't expect such realism from fantasy sci-fi which Trek is.
It's one of the few things they are consistent with.
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Old May 18 2012, 03:28 AM   #18
Violet.Phoenix
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

exodus wrote: View Post
Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
We've seen many times in Trek that doesn't happen.
We've seen Picard have major heart surgery and walk out the door right after it was done like nothing happened. We've seen Harry Kim walk away from an 8472 infection with no lasting trauma. The only time I can recall seeing physical trauma in Trek is when someone looses a limb or spinal surgery.
That's true. Although I was referring to the physical changes having an emotional effect on them, so my apologies for not clarifying that. Going through a sort of experience like that, despite any sort of mental preparation would likely have emotional repercussions. You may not agree with me, but I just cannot believe that there would be no emotional trauma after being assimilated.
No, I do agree but even going by DS9's "Hard Time", emotional and physical trauma in Trek only last until the end of each episode.......but then again, we shouldn't expect such realism from fantasy sci-fi which Trek is.
It's one of the few things they are consistent with.
That's one continuity that they got right. It's almost like characters were given a (mostly) clean slate at the start of each episode.
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Old May 18 2012, 03:50 AM   #19
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post

That's true. Although I was referring to the physical changes having an emotional effect on them, so my apologies for not clarifying that. Going through a sort of experience like that, despite any sort of mental preparation would likely have emotional repercussions. You may not agree with me, but I just cannot believe that there would be no emotional trauma after being assimilated.
No, I do agree but even going by DS9's "Hard Time", emotional and physical trauma in Trek only last until the end of each episode.......but then again, we shouldn't expect such realism from fantasy sci-fi which Trek is.
It's one of the few things they are consistent with.
That's one continuity that they got right. It's almost like characters were given a (mostly) clean slate at the start of each episode.
I usually refer to the Prophets lesson to Sisko about getting over shit: "Why do you exist here?" I think basically it's TPTB's way of saying, characters are not going to linger on stuff when we can spend more effort pushing the story forward. Uhura and Troi have both been raped and they acted like NOTHING ever happened then either.
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Old May 18 2012, 05:02 AM   #20
Violet.Phoenix
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

exodus wrote: View Post
Violet.Phoenix wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
No, I do agree but even going by DS9's "Hard Time", emotional and physical trauma in Trek only last until the end of each episode.......but then again, we shouldn't expect such realism from fantasy sci-fi which Trek is.
It's one of the few things they are consistent with.
That's one continuity that they got right. It's almost like characters were given a (mostly) clean slate at the start of each episode.
I usually refer to the Prophets lesson to Sisko about getting over shit: "Why do you exist here?" I think basically it's TPTB's way of saying, characters are not going to linger on stuff when we can spend more effort pushing the story forward. Uhura and Troi have both been raped and they acted like NOTHING ever happened then either.
You see I can understand the logic in that. It is, after all, only a one hour show. I guess maybe it's just me and my fondness for character development and continuity.
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Old May 18 2012, 09:48 AM   #21
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

Voyager's continuity in five words:

WHERE IS THE BORG BABY?!?
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Old May 18 2012, 03:29 PM   #22
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

It died due to unforessen complications due to being removed from the maturation chamber.
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Old May 18 2012, 09:36 PM   #23
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Voyager's continuity in five words:

WHERE IS THE BORG BABY?!?
The words that come to my mind are more along the lines of:

WHEN THE HECK DID SEVEN AND CHAKOTAY START DATING?!
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Old May 19 2012, 02:43 AM   #24
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Voyager's continuity in five words:

WHERE IS THE BORG BABY?!?
Lost in a script change.
They were supposed to be mentioned that it went with the rest of the Borg kids but due to a last minute script change, it got cut out and mistakenly forgotten.
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Old May 19 2012, 09:12 PM   #25
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

I'm glad they intended to address it at one point, at least! But, after the cut, surely they could have snuck in a comment in the next episode.
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Old May 19 2012, 09:51 PM   #26
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
I'm glad they intended to address it at one point, at least! But, after the cut, surely they could have snuck in a comment in the next episode.
I think it's easier said than done.
Voyager had allot of troubles from the start with TNG & DS9 to live up too, not to mention being a flagship show on a brand new network trying to establish itself. I can clearly see how small details like such can be overlooked when you have producers and studio heads demanding so much more of you.

Look at it this way, it's easy to remember the bread and eggs when your wife is yelling at you to go shopping but because she's got you stressed, you always forget the milk. That's how I envision how being a writer on Voyager must have been like. It's why I try to give the show some slack. You get a different perspective when you try to picture yourself in their shoes...or at least I do.
Seriously, how can anyone be creative under such pressure?
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Old May 20 2012, 11:32 PM   #27
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
Voyager's continuity in five words:

WHERE IS THE BORG BABY?!?
Add to that...

Where is the Equinox crew?

What happened to the Borg rebellion/Civil War?

Why does Janeway mysteriously forget Kess' warning about the Krenim?

Other issues...

One episode the crew laments the potential loss of the doctor and the fact that he could not be replaced or backed up...the next the doctor has a msterios back up module that is a perfect copy of the EMH.

In an early episode Janeway laments the fact that she does not have any betazoids/telepaths on board...a later episode points out that she DOES in fact have them on board because the have to be hidden.

I'd also add the silly Lindsy Ballard episode to the list. We'll ignore the fact that Harry would not have had a relationship with this woman as suggested since he was still pining for Libby when the show started...there is also the fact that as an episode from late in the series run, it was kind of insulting to have a story about a lost beloved crew member that we NEVER met not heard of in the previous seasons.
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Old May 21 2012, 09:53 AM   #28
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

Did they ever say that Lindsey and Harry were in an actual relationship though, I always figured they were just friends.
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Old May 21 2012, 04:05 PM   #29
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

To answer your questions: Yes.

Voyager had really bad continuity in many, many aspects of the show. I mean "Fury" literally changed the first three seasons of the whole damned show. The writers were only interested in telling a fun and interesting new sci-fi story each week which they mostly succeeded in, but that's really where their ambition ended which was a pity.

RE: Lindsay Ballard, no they weren't in a relationship but her existence as Harry's close friend on Voyager makes absolutely ZERO sense and that detracted from an episode which has one of the best concepts of any Trek show ever.
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Old May 21 2012, 05:00 PM   #30
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Re: Did Voyager have bad continuity?

If there was ever a ST show in which we got to know characters outside of the main cast it was VOY.
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