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View Poll Results: How do you grade The Avengers?
A+ 149 46.42%
A 102 31.78%
A- 30 9.35%
B+ 17 5.30%
B 11 3.43%
B- 5 1.56%
C+ 0 0%
C 4 1.25%
C- 1 0.31%
D+ 1 0.31%
D 0 0%
D- 0 0%
F 1 0.31%
Voters: 321. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 14 2012, 04:44 PM   #946
Captain Craig
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

I think the trick would be to balance out the angst with some hope.
He hopes to cure himself but it's the turmoil over not being able to that has been seemingly spotlighted in the two films to date.

Mark's Banner, in the year since TIH, seems to have come to terms with what he is now. Even if he doesn't want to embrace it like Tony. His line in the lab to Tony and the group about "focusing on helping others" after "the other guy spit out" seems to indicate he's at a type of peace now.
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Old May 14 2012, 05:24 PM   #947
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
I think the trick would be to balance out the angst with some hope.
He hopes to cure himself but it's the turmoil over not being able to that has been seemingly spotlighted in the two films to date.

Mark's Banner, in the year since TIH, seems to have come to terms with what he is now. Even if he doesn't want to embrace it like Tony. His line in the lab to Tony and the group about "focusing on helping others" after "the other guy spit out" seems to indicate he's at a type of peace now.
The bottom line is, stories focusing on a cure for his condition are nothing but "Gilligan's Island" scenarios--by definition, he can't succeed or his story is over. I think viewers subconsciously know this going in, so watching him agonize over finding a cure gets to be very dull because you know he can't find one, just due to dramatic necessity. There has to be some other focus, and the search for a cure only works as a background plot to motivate him.
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Old May 14 2012, 05:47 PM   #948
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
I think the trick would be to balance out the angst with some hope.
He hopes to cure himself but it's the turmoil over not being able to that has been seemingly spotlighted in the two films to date.

Mark's Banner, in the year since TIH, seems to have come to terms with what he is now. Even if he doesn't want to embrace it like Tony. His line in the lab to Tony and the group about "focusing on helping others" after "the other guy spit out" seems to indicate he's at a type of peace now.
The bottom line is, stories focusing on a cure for his condition are nothing but "Gilligan's Island" scenarios--by definition, he can't succeed or his story is over. I think viewers subconsciously know this going in, so watching him agonize over finding a cure gets to be very dull because you know he can't find one, just due to dramatic necessity. There has to be some other focus, and the search for a cure only works as a background plot to motivate him.
If we don't get a Leader vs. RuffaloHulk Movie out of this, Marvel is officially run by Skrulls.
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Old May 14 2012, 05:55 PM   #949
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

USS Mariner wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
I think the trick would be to balance out the angst with some hope.
He hopes to cure himself but it's the turmoil over not being able to that has been seemingly spotlighted in the two films to date.

Mark's Banner, in the year since TIH, seems to have come to terms with what he is now. Even if he doesn't want to embrace it like Tony. His line in the lab to Tony and the group about "focusing on helping others" after "the other guy spit out" seems to indicate he's at a type of peace now.
The bottom line is, stories focusing on a cure for his condition are nothing but "Gilligan's Island" scenarios--by definition, he can't succeed or his story is over. I think viewers subconsciously know this going in, so watching him agonize over finding a cure gets to be very dull because you know he can't find one, just due to dramatic necessity. There has to be some other focus, and the search for a cure only works as a background plot to motivate him.
If we don't get a Leader vs. RuffaloHulk Movie out of this, Marvel is officially run by Skrulls.
Chitauri, Fox has the rights to the Skrulls.
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Old May 14 2012, 06:11 PM   #950
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
So I was thinking about the "blow up the mothership, all of the secondary ships and aliens die" trope the movie played out and came to maybe a reasonable conclusion..
My alternative explanation was, the Chitauri are aliens, they can't necessarily survive in our atmosphere, their suits were sustaining them on Earth and were powered from the mothership. Since the mothership was on the other side of the wormhole it's actually a viable setup, the constant flow of Chitauri out should have prevented anyone entering from the Earth side. Of course Thor's lightning dealt with that, but the Chitauri didn't plan on Thor.

My big beef with the Chitauri was that if Natasha could take them out with a 9mm handgun, they were hardly any kind of threat whatsoever. The nuke would have dealt with the first wave, then send waves of Jericho missles to hit the wormhole continuously while mankind prepares a few guided missles to do what Tony did by hand. The problem was the Chitauri weren't any kind of threat, the Hyrda troops in WW2 could have outgunned them. They really needed to be tougher to take out; Cap and Hawkeye should have been shown grabbing and using the Chitauri weapons like Natasha did, the Chitauri shouldn't have been so vulnerable to a shield, a handgun and some exploding arrows.

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
sojourner wrote: View Post
Yeah, I wondered about the woman's reaction when he got unmasked.
I just attributed that to what I'd think a persons reaction would be to someone being unmasked. "Let me get a good look at mystery person."
The camera stayed on the blonde woman (I believe that's who you're referring to) little too long, showed her again later, and then she was interviewed on tv. I'm inclined to believe she is going to be prominent in Cap's next movie.

sonak wrote: View Post
It's basically "bad guy wants to conquer the world, good guys stop him, MacGuffin thrown in."
As I wrote upthread, the plot is similar enough to "The Seven Samurai". I suppose you could argue that film's plot was "thin", you can argue anything. The crux is, how well was the plot executed?

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
I think Hulk works much better as part of an ensemble where he isn't the focus. I can only take so much Bruce Banner angst.
I didn't notice any angst on the part of Ruffalo, I thought he came across as a very smart and dangerous man who had intended to drop off the radar. I think it could be an excellent characterization with the right story and the right supporting characters. Ruffalo's Banner has more in common with the Steve Rogers character, only without the innocence. He is out of place, yes, but with motivation to "get out into the world" he'll take hold of a cause.
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Old May 14 2012, 06:18 PM   #951
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
I just attributed that to what I'd think a persons reaction would be to someone being unmasked. "Let me get a good look at mystery person."
The camera stayed on the blonde woman (I believe that's who you're referring to) little too long, showed her again later, and then she was interviewed on tv. I'm inclined to believe she is going to be prominent in Cap's next movie.
Maybe. I thought she was just the "regular" person reaction. However, she did a 3-episode arc on Whedon's Dollhouse so he could nudge the idea that she shows up in some manner I suppose.
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Old May 14 2012, 06:20 PM   #952
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Hartzilla2007 wrote: View Post
USS Mariner wrote: View Post
Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post

The bottom line is, stories focusing on a cure for his condition are nothing but "Gilligan's Island" scenarios--by definition, he can't succeed or his story is over. I think viewers subconsciously know this going in, so watching him agonize over finding a cure gets to be very dull because you know he can't find one, just due to dramatic necessity. There has to be some other focus, and the search for a cure only works as a background plot to motivate him.
If we don't get a Leader vs. RuffaloHulk Movie out of this, Marvel is officially run by Skrulls.
Chitauri, Fox has the rights to the Skrulls.
They're all the same family. The Fox Skrulls and the Marvel Skrulls are still fighting over the family name. Something about "Stan's Special Sauce" and which part of the family it rightfully belongs to.
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Old May 14 2012, 07:07 PM   #953
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

forgot to mention, the Thanos cameo(too short to qualify as a cameo?) was pretty cool. It was pitched squarely at fan-boys and left you wanting to see how they'd handle him in a sequel.
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Old May 14 2012, 07:14 PM   #954
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Robert Maxwell wrote: View Post
The bottom line is, stories focusing on a cure for his condition are nothing but "Gilligan's Island" scenarios--by definition, he can't succeed or his story is over. I think viewers subconsciously know this going in, so watching him agonize over finding a cure gets to be very dull because you know he can't find one, just due to dramatic necessity. There has to be some other focus, and the search for a cure only works as a background plot to motivate him.
Yeah, I think the big question for a Hulk movie is: where do you go from here? Banner has found relative peace in his co-existence with Hulk. He's a hero now, friends with Tony Stark. A cure story is pointless, and it would make little sense to go back to the military/Shield hunting him down.

Some Hulk stories in the comics take him off-world, but then Banner tends to basically disappear, and it's all Hulk all the time.

One thing you could do is a story where the Leader, maybe working more or less directly with the World Council or whatever, is trying to weaponize the Hulk, recreate the process that turned Banner into Hulk, get a sample of Hulk's blood to exploit, etc. It's been done in the comics on occasion, as I recall.

But it could fit with the rest of what's going on in the film universe, while allowing Banner as a scientist to play as big a role as Hulk.
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Old May 14 2012, 07:24 PM   #955
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

.50 Phalanx or basic high-rate-of-fire anti-aircraft cannons would have chewed through the Chitauri invasion force with more than enough force.

I know it takes time to mount those and it would have been inpractical in that situation, but point them at the wormhole and those worms would have been the only real problem, but lacerated so badly they'd be slowed down.
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Old May 14 2012, 07:31 PM   #956
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
.50 Phalanx or basic high-rate-of-fire anti-aircraft cannons would have chewed through the Chitauri invasion force with more than enough force.

I know it takes time to mount those and it would have been inpractical in that situation, but point them at the wormhole and those worms would have been the only real problem, but lacerated so badly they'd be slowed down.
Okay lets take this real world. A few years ago a National Guard M-60 tank used for armory weekend drills was stolen from a San Diego National Guard armory. After that happened the tanks, PCs and self propelled guns were taken out of the armories and sent to NG camps and regular army forts . In this situation by the time the National Guard or the regulars from Fort Drum got their gear and deployed we would have been a long way from just trying to hold the breech point.
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Old May 14 2012, 07:32 PM   #957
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
My big beef with the Chitauri was that if Natasha could take them out with a 9mm handgun, they were hardly any kind of threat whatsoever.
Well, let's be fair. She could have had a .40 cal. But BW is supposed to be an expert marksman so she could've been hitting them in their "one vulnerable spot" like in the face/mask or something. But, yeah, I agree that they were so easily taken out by an earth handgun was weak. But along those same lines those soldiers may have just been "cannon fodder." They're meant to just go in and get killed to keep those they're invading overwhelmed by sheer numbers while the bigger guns (the ships) do the heavier destruction work. They're not meant to be formidable or even unstoppable as single soldiers in battle they're meant to simply overwhelm by numbers.

So what if the puny Earth handgun takes one out? There's 10,000 more where that came from!

I did think it was awesome how BW managed to get ahold of, and use, one of the Chitauri weapons, also loved it when she boarded the Chitauri air-skiff, back-mounted one of them attacking... Aww, hell, I loved everything BW did.
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Old May 14 2012, 07:36 PM   #958
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

I think she uses two Glock 33's, I have an airsoft version, not a very comfortable weapon to use.
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Old May 14 2012, 07:53 PM   #959
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Captain Craig wrote: View Post
LaxScrutiny wrote: View Post
Captain Craig wrote: View Post
I just attributed that to what I'd think a persons reaction would be to someone being unmasked. "Let me get a good look at mystery person."
The camera stayed on the blonde woman (I believe that's who you're referring to) little too long, showed her again later, and then she was interviewed on tv. I'm inclined to believe she is going to be prominent in Cap's next movie.
Maybe. I thought she was just the "regular" person reaction. However, she did a 3-episode arc on Whedon's Dollhouse so he could nudge the idea that she shows up in some manner I suppose.
I think I read somewhere that the waitress is from a deleted scene which would have taken place earlier in the film and shown Cap (in civilian clothes) eating at the restaurant and trying to get used to the present.
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Old May 14 2012, 08:02 PM   #960
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Chemahkuu wrote: View Post
I think she uses two Glock 33's, I have an airsoft version, not a very comfortable weapon to use.
According to IMFDB, Johansson uses dual Glock 26s.

Personally, I can't stand Glocks; they're so light I can't aim my shots worth a damn. A few months ago, I was doing a Civil War living history demo at a local gun range, and afterwards a few of us tried out the gun demos for the public. The pistol range had two guns at the time, a Glock and a 1911.

The particular Glock I was shooting was equipped with a laser sight and mag-lens kit. My spread was insanely large, at least for someone who on his worst day has a spread of less than 2 inches on the bullseye. I would have been more accurate it I threw the gun.

The 1911 was a Mil-spec .45, and one of my friends warned me about the weight. To be honest, even before firing a shot I was far more comfortable, as I'm used to heavier rifles and revolvers.

Nailed every fucking shot.
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