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View Poll Results: How do you grade The Avengers?
A+ 149 46.42%
A 102 31.78%
A- 30 9.35%
B+ 17 5.30%
B 11 3.43%
B- 5 1.56%
C+ 0 0%
C 4 1.25%
C- 1 0.31%
D+ 1 0.31%
D 0 0%
D- 0 0%
F 1 0.31%
Voters: 321. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 11 2012, 01:57 PM   #811
Chemahkuu
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
How did the Tesseract end up on Earth anyway? In CA Red Skull says something like it was the "crown jewel of Odin's treasure room" and at the end of The Avengers it seems heavily implied its power is beyond what Humans should have access too and Thor takes it back to Asgard.
The building looked ancient enough to have been from the time of the Asgardian wars with the Frost Giants.

The war may have come to Earth, but the FG's just seemed (like Loki later) to want to rule us, having a slave army, rather than anything else, considering Humanity to be far too primitive to care about.

Thor even states in the Avengers Earth is still regarded like that today, Odin presumably used that fact to his advantage and kept the Tesseract safe by putting it into the care of a Norwegian sect that had dealings with the Asgard over the years, a secret society he trusted with things like this.

Knowing that it would be centuries before Earth even overcame enough of it's superstitious fear to even think of removing the cube from their relic-like care for it, and even longer before they had technology to do that "nudge it and make it spit energy" thing it seems to do.

Unfortunately the Nazi occult divisions during the war got there first. And even then all Hydra actually did was develop pritimitive but robust superconductors to take that energy to specialised crystals that could contain and regulate the release of that energy. All of which where shattered or destroyed during the war and by Red Skull's paranoid self destruct switches everywhere.

And if it weren't for the "Hey I'm here" shit the thing did at the end of Captain America it's possible the lower levels of contained energy release might have gone unnoticed by the realms, it being 50+ years for them to bother meaning they seemed to care little anyway.

It was better off hidden on a realm no one would care about, meaning here. Red Skull just put a bit of a dent in those plans.
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Old May 11 2012, 01:59 PM   #812
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Which is odd, since Howard Stark recovered the Tesseract you'd think SHIELD, Stark Industries or the US Government would have been able to figure out how it works and duplicate Red Skull's work considering they had 70 years to do it in.
Especially since they had Zola, the guy who figured it out initially, in custody.
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Old May 11 2012, 03:38 PM   #813
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

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Old May 11 2012, 03:57 PM   #814
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Vendikarr wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
Which is odd, since Howard Stark recovered the Tesseract you'd think SHIELD, Stark Industries or the US Government would have been able to figure out how it works and duplicate Red Skull's work considering they had 70 years to do it in.
Especially since they had Zola, the guy who figured it out initially, in custody.

I assumed that his custody didn't last very long, but that's based on where he ends up in the comics, and thus may not be valid.
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Old May 11 2012, 04:05 PM   #815
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Zola was smart enough to turn himself into one of the first cyborgs in human history, even though he's just supposed to be a biochemist. Then again, in the comics the reason he was so ahead of his time with genetics was because he found notes and equipment left behind by aliens.

As for the Super-Soldier program, everyone seems to forget that there's two elements to the process: Being injected with the Serum, and then being treated with Vita-Rays. Without the Vita-Ray treatment, the serum remains unstable and has unpredictable effects on the subject (I don't know if Red Skull also got the Vita Rays or not).

No one knew how to duplicate the Vita-Rays (and maybe not even the serum itself), which is why Bruce Banner used Gamma Radiation instead. Except that didn't work as planned either...
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Old May 11 2012, 06:24 PM   #816
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

I see there's a minor flap about Whedon's joke about being adopted. I thought it was tasteless but not offensive enough to ruin the movie because all superheroes as well as supervillians has peculiar family issues and singling this out is it like objecting to one kernel of corn on an ear.

Worst, I thought it was more objectionable that it was an out of character line, Joss Whedon speaking in his own voice, for a cheap laugh. I know the timing was good, but does anyone really think the character Thor as presented in his movie would have said such a thing? No, Thor as presented in this movie doesn't count because Thor was not characterized in this movie at all. (One of the many reasons I thought Whedon's script/direction was mediocre at best.)
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Old May 11 2012, 06:36 PM   #817
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Well, he has had more time to come to terms with everything that's happened since his movie. His movie happened over the course of only a few days at most, so he's had a year or so to deal with everything that happened with Loki.

It was kind of tasteless though, an obvious Whedon-line.
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Old May 11 2012, 07:09 PM   #818
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

I didn't take the line as against adopted children. Rather, I took it as Thor distancing himself by not being blood-related to the asshole currently destroying New York. Especially since he defended Loki barely 10 seconds before that line.
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Old May 11 2012, 07:12 PM   #819
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

funny that Hyperspace is moaning about the Chitauri feeling 'weightless' when they were played by stuntmen in mocap suits as seen in set photos from the filming in NYC...
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Old May 11 2012, 07:47 PM   #820
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
funny that Hyperspace is moaning about the Chitauri feeling 'weightless' when they were played by stuntmen in mocap suits as seen in set photos from the filming in NYC...
I "moan" because that's how it looked. They might well have done on-set mo-cap, but it sure doesn't look like it in most scenes. If they did, they did it poorly. They look like they should weigh close to 300 lbs, but they get thrown around like 50 lb anorectics.

And besides, most on-set photos did NOT feature stuntmen in mo-cap suits. That was what had people wondering for a long time who the villains would be - skrull duplicates of Avengers, or something else.
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Old May 11 2012, 07:57 PM   #821
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

I saw the "adopted" uproar remark on Tuesday. I didn't post it here cause imo it's a much ado about nothing. Mad for the sake of being mad. Whatever that group was began calling for a boycott!! Literally the day before it would break $700m WW.

It was a joke, get over it.
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Old May 11 2012, 08:32 PM   #822
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

I liked someone finally giving a proper comeback to the "There are no Men like me!" spiel.

Now we just need someone to say that to Jaime Lannister.
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Old May 11 2012, 08:41 PM   #823
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Hyperspace05 wrote: View Post
- Hulk was a bit too well-behaved in the fight - especially near the end, where they stare down Loki.
It's been inferred in the past the Banner has a measure of control over Hulk when he initiates the change himself.
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Old May 11 2012, 08:47 PM   #824
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

Anwar wrote: View Post
Zola was smart enough to turn himself into one of the first cyborgs in human history, even though he's just supposed to be a biochemist. Then again, in the comics the reason he was so ahead of his time with genetics was because he found notes and equipment left behind by aliens.

As for the Super-Soldier program, everyone seems to forget that there's two elements to the process: Being injected with the Serum, and then being treated with Vita-Rays. Without the Vita-Ray treatment, the serum remains unstable and has unpredictable effects on the subject (I don't know if Red Skull also got the Vita Rays or not).

No one knew how to duplicate the Vita-Rays (and maybe not even the serum itself), which is why Bruce Banner used Gamma Radiation instead. Except that didn't work as planned either...
Yeah, that was my thinking too. The type of radiation used by Stark was in-duplicable resulting Banner trying Gamma rays which... Didn't end well.

Correct me if I am wrong, this is the first time in the MCU we were told exactly how "this Hulk" (technically Norton's Hulk) came to be. IIRC from the Ang Lee movie the experiment wasn't about trying to duplicate the super-soldier process but something else entirely. In fact the opening credits sequence to TIH suggests Banner willingly tested the process on himself. (In the Ang Lee movie, Banner is exposed to the Gamma Radiation accidentally when tries to save a co-worker from exposure apparently thinking his body is made out of lead.)

And, yeah, I realize the "Norton Hulk Origin" footage is available as a DVD extra or something, but I've never seen it.

Well, he has had more time to come to terms with everything that's happened since his movie. His movie happened over the course of only a few days at most, so he's had a year or so to deal with everything that happened with Loki.
A little less than two years pass (on Earth) between the events in "Thor" and the events in "The Avengers." (This according to the Marvel Cinematic Universe Timeline.) Thor destroys the Bifrost in May 2010, The Avengers takes place in February of 2012.

Of course this is the time that passes on Earth, the time passage on Asgard could be different.

I didn't take the joke about Loki being "adopted" (strictly speaking he was baby-napped) as being against adopted children just as someone said above it was Thor's way of "distancing" himself from Loki by saying his bloodlines aren't the same as Thor's.

It was a simple, small, Whedonistic joke nothing more. I doubt it was Whedon's way to insult people who've been adopted as I see no reason why he'd even want to do such a thing. Those upset about it are making mountains out of molehills over a nothing line. It's like the ado that was made over the infamous "don't go full retard" scene in "Tropic Thunder" where special-needs groups got all upset over the pejorative rather than catching the meaning of the scene/message.

Thor's line was a simple joke that Loki and he do not share any ambitions or likeness by blood.
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Old May 11 2012, 08:56 PM   #825
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Re: AVENGERS: Grade, Reviews, Discuss, DVD & Sequel **SPOILERS**

stj wrote: View Post
I see there's a minor flap about Whedon's joke about being adopted. I thought it was tasteless but not offensive enough to ruin the movie because all superheroes as well as supervillians has peculiar family issues and singling this out is it like objecting to one kernel of corn on an ear.

Worst, I thought it was more objectionable that it was an out of character line, Joss Whedon speaking in his own voice, for a cheap laugh. I know the timing was good, but does anyone really think the character Thor as presented in his movie would have said such a thing? No, Thor as presented in this movie doesn't count because Thor was not characterized in this movie at all. (One of the many reasons I thought Whedon's script/direction was mediocre at best.)
So.... what did you LIKE about the movie?
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