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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old April 29 2012, 01:48 AM   #91
T'Girl
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
Ack, those spoilers!

Uck!
"Resistance is futile, lower your shields and give us your coffee."







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Last edited by T'Girl; April 29 2012 at 04:52 AM.
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Old April 29 2012, 05:31 PM   #92
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Star trek is all about great story telling and showing whats good with humanity.Leave the dark and gritty to the aliens
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Old May 4 2012, 03:43 PM   #93
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

As much as I like trek, this brings up some points that I did in my "proposal":

http://io9.com/5906586/why-star-trek...?tag=star-trek
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Old May 4 2012, 04:48 PM   #94
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

RAMA wrote: View Post
OK, so instead of saying what it should not be, let me suggest a few things...

Firstly, ST is probably never going to be up to the level of it's literary cousins. It has to be entertainment first and foremost. Still, its hard to take any future SF series seriosuly unless they come to terms with what SF writers have been for almost 2 decades...what are the implications of a singularity event for ST/Earth's future? The 23rd and 24th century shows already got it wrong by that measure, but to seem up to date they are going to have some perspective on it. If the show takes place in the 23rd-25th centuries in the "Prime Universe" it'll be a moderate view, we may encounter more civilizations that have passed through this stage or multiple stages of development to comment on it. In JJ's universe, probably much of the same thing will occur, but it'll probably be more open ended. A whole new universe and history would probably make more sense, but then you'd have to create a hole new show!

So I propose this...technoglocial advances in the next 30 years will make most of Trek tech seem quaint (prob not transporters or warp), let's make a 25th century show that deals with a UFP that's been an arrested culture, one that legislated out eugenics, nanotech, and AI to the point we've seen so far, but by the 25th century such advances cannot be contained, we start to see certain parts of the UFP evolve through transhumanism. Nanotech and foglet technologies transform UFP ships into maleable things...AI is everywhere. The crews are part "trans" with others relatively unmodified, though no one can be totally unmodified and function on a starship anymore. One aspect may be a conflict between those choosing to advance and those who do not. More conflict might arise with alien superpowers, some who may just be embarking on their own self-evolution, but are afraid of the advanced technological Federation. At this point, the final outcome, whether the UFP becomes a threatening machine civilization or a benevolent one is in question to all. Potentially we could see anti-Borg fanatics, terrorists. Such a ST show will have advanced tech, exploration outwardly, but also inwardly to a large degree. It would have to leave a POV open to question, though no doubt there will be morality plays as well. Questions of aging, modes of thinking, analogies to racism and bias, man vs machine, and really where we are headed in the contemporary age would all be raised.

RAMA

Another thought, in terms of story, the UFP will not only be wrestling with issues of trans and non-trans humans, and outside aliens, but simply the fact that they won't know how they'll end up...whether what is happening will end up for the betterment of civilization or not, much like the debate is today. It makes the issue more complex...though of course everyone feels what they are doing is right.

RAMA
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Old May 5 2012, 06:26 AM   #95
Sjaddix
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Interesting. Certainly New.
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Old May 7 2012, 02:05 PM   #96
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Sjaddix wrote: View Post
Interesting. Certainly New.
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Old May 7 2012, 11:28 PM   #97
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

However, I don't think accuracy matters too much. No one is watching a show with robots as the main characters instead of humans.
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Old May 10 2012, 10:06 PM   #98
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Sjaddix wrote: View Post
However, I don't think accuracy matters too much. No one is watching a show with robots as the main characters instead of humans.
"Robots" is simplistic anyway, but I never said robots.
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Old May 11 2012, 12:20 AM   #99
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

RAMA wrote: View Post

Another thought, in terms of story, the UFP will not only be wrestling with issues of trans and non-trans humans, and outside aliens, but simply the fact that they won't know how they'll end up...whether what is happening will end up for the betterment of civilization or not, much like the debate is today. It makes the issue more complex...though of course everyone feels what they are doing is right.

RAMA
Trans humans or the singularity, is near impossible for star trek, unless you do a total reboot, and alter the show to the point that it is no longer star trek. Ignoring the technical challenges of the singularity on television. The writing for it is near impossible, because it creates plot holes that aren't easily resolved.

If the doctor can copy his unimatrix, and have multiple copies of himself, why isn't voyageur using this to aid them since they are desperate to get home. Sure you can make up some reasoning, but a patch work of made up reasonings does not add up to a coherent show.
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Old May 11 2012, 12:34 AM   #100
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

TerraNovan wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post

Another thought, in terms of story, the UFP will not only be wrestling with issues of trans and non-trans humans, and outside aliens, but simply the fact that they won't know how they'll end up...whether what is happening will end up for the betterment of civilization or not, much like the debate is today. It makes the issue more complex...though of course everyone feels what they are doing is right.

RAMA
Trans humans or the singularity, is near impossible for star trek, unless you do a total reboot, and alter the show to the point that it is no longer star trek. Ignoring the technical challenges of the singularity on television. The writing for it is near impossible, because it creates plot holes that aren't easily resolved.

If the doctor can copy his unimatrix, and have multiple copies of himself, why isn't voyageur using this to aid them since they are desperate to get home. Sure you can make up some reasoning, but a patch work of made up reasonings does not add up to a coherent show.
I explained how they could do it and they dont have to do any tinkering with the past at all.
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Old May 11 2012, 12:52 AM   #101
TerraNovan
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

RAMA wrote: View Post
TerraNovan wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post

Another thought, in terms of story, the UFP will not only be wrestling with issues of trans and non-trans humans, and outside aliens, but simply the fact that they won't know how they'll end up...whether what is happening will end up for the betterment of civilization or not, much like the debate is today. It makes the issue more complex...though of course everyone feels what they are doing is right.

RAMA
Trans humans or the singularity, is near impossible for star trek, unless you do a total reboot, and alter the show to the point that it is no longer star trek. Ignoring the technical challenges of the singularity on television. The writing for it is near impossible, because it creates plot holes that aren't easily resolved.

If the doctor can copy his unimatrix, and have multiple copies of himself, why isn't voyageur using this to aid them since they are desperate to get home. Sure you can make up some reasoning, but a patch work of made up reasonings does not add up to a coherent show.
I explained how they could do it and they dont have to do any tinkering with the past at all.
Yeah and you didn't answer some very basic premises, which are gonna arise the second you mention transhumanism.

What happens when the romulans, get a hold of this tech, and can multiple their armies at a near exponential rate. Your gonna be facing an army of infinity, you can say this would make a good show the reality is it would make a show unbelievable.
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Old May 13 2012, 01:05 AM   #102
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Easily solved in dialogue.

"wait, so we can make duplicates of people?"

"Nope, doesn't work like that. This tech can't do that."


The writers can literally put a kibosh on it in a few seconds flat.
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Old May 13 2012, 04:03 AM   #103
RAMA
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

TerraNovan wrote: View Post
RAMA wrote: View Post
TerraNovan wrote: View Post

Trans humans or the singularity, is near impossible for star trek, unless you do a total reboot, and alter the show to the point that it is no longer star trek. Ignoring the technical challenges of the singularity on television. The writing for it is near impossible, because it creates plot holes that aren't easily resolved.

If the doctor can copy his unimatrix, and have multiple copies of himself, why isn't voyageur using this to aid them since they are desperate to get home. Sure you can make up some reasoning, but a patch work of made up reasonings does not add up to a coherent show.
I explained how they could do it and they dont have to do any tinkering with the past at all.
Yeah and you didn't answer some very basic premises, which are gonna arise the second you mention transhumanism.

What happens when the romulans, get a hold of this tech, and can multiple their armies at a near exponential rate. Your gonna be facing an army of infinity, you can say this would make a good show the reality is it would make a show unbelievable.
I wasn't trying to create a detailed synopsis of the show, but I don't really see too many problems with exploring what I clearly stated was a pre-singularity like state in human affairs with transhumanist overtones though not necessarily permeating the culture yet. It takes the impossible nature of speculating on what would happens afterwords out of the equation.

I did mention that the UFP was a technological leader in this area, they are the first amongst the powers that would start embracing the tech, other powers of course would be racing to catch up, in the meantime the UFP would be seen as a greater potential threat, and the irony is that the UFP itself doesn't know where this change will lead.

Another element that could be explored is if transhumanism might lead to higher enlightenment through a change of perception brought forth with the technology...is the changeover just assumed to be threatening by the Romulans for example, or if they embrace it will they the better for it as well, and abandon hostility towards the UFP? We really wouldn't know the outcome right away. I could see a series where the UFP might be hard to surpass for the first few years, then suddenly a few Alpha Quadrant powers challenge the supremacy.

There would probably have to be a few concessions made in the technology (showing how powerful the potential is) such as Starfleet officers allowed only one identity and only one copy at a time, but all crew members could upload and download themselves.
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Old May 13 2012, 04:16 PM   #104
TerraNovan
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
Easily solved in dialogue.

"wait, so we can make duplicates of people?"

"Nope, doesn't work like that. This tech can't do that."


The writers can literally put a kibosh on it in a few seconds flat.
Except that don't work, you can't just make up dialogue and pretend it's believable, unless your audience is totally uneducated, these plot holes will crop up just about every single episode.

Granted that seemed to never matter on voyageur

If your making a show into 2015 etc, your gonna have to be a little more advanced when people were 50 years ago. People expect a certain amount of plot coherence, this is the internet age, where everyone has access to information.
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Old May 15 2012, 11:45 PM   #105
RAMA
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Re: Star Trek, what I think it should be.....

TerraNovan wrote: View Post
Herkimer Jitty wrote: View Post
Easily solved in dialogue.

"wait, so we can make duplicates of people?"

"Nope, doesn't work like that. This tech can't do that."


The writers can literally put a kibosh on it in a few seconds flat.
Except that don't work, you can't just make up dialogue and pretend it's believable, unless your audience is totally uneducated, these plot holes will crop up just about every single episode.

Granted that seemed to never matter on voyageur

If your making a show into 2015 etc, your gonna have to be a little more advanced when people were 50 years ago. People expect a certain amount of plot coherence, this is the internet age, where everyone has access to information.

If you establish the milieu right off the bat then the show doesn't have to contradict itself. All the implications of the technology will be intertwined in the fabric of the show itself.
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