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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Forgotten History.
Outstanding 56 50.45%
Above Average 40 36.04%
Average 10 9.01%
Below Average 3 2.70%
Poor 2 1.80%
Voters: 111. You may not vote on this poll

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Old May 9 2012, 08:42 PM   #211
RPJOB
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
Deranged Nasat wrote: View Post
I suppose the urge to have the feline race be fickle and aloof in accordance with cat stereotypes might come into it, too...
I try to avoid treating aliens as exact analogues to whatever Earthly species they happen to resemble. Although that cliche is more excusable in Trek than elsewhere, assuming the First Humanoids' programmed DNA influences life on multiple worlds to develop in broadly similar directions.

And for that, I thank you Christopher. The Caitians in particular are usually just treated a big house cats. An early chapter in the first Vanguard book has a Caitian being diagnosed with a hairball. And PAD plays up the cat angle even more with "They're in, the're out, they're in" regarding their Federation membership. I'm sure at some time we'll see one with a litterbox in their quarters and someone will distract a Caitian security guard with nothing more than a laser pointer.

I'd rather have well thought out aliens than cartoon cutouts.
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Old May 9 2012, 09:34 PM   #212
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

I rated it 'Above Average'.

Like many of Christopher's books, pacing was an issue here. Especially during the climax of the story, much like Watching the Clock, it seemed to go on forever.

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Old May 9 2012, 09:49 PM   #213
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

BillJ wrote: View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by that. But as I explained above, the limitations I ascribed to the slingshot process are grounded in the actual physics of a Tipler curve. So if that's what you're referring to, I don't think "artificial" would be the right word for it.
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Old May 9 2012, 09:54 PM   #214
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RPJOB wrote: View Post
An early chapter in the first Vanguard book has a Caitian being diagnosed with a hairball. And PAD plays up the cat angle even more with "They're in, the're out, they're in" regarding their Federation membership. I'm sure at some time we'll see one with a litterbox in their quarters and someone will distract a Caitian security guard with nothing more than a laser pointer.


Or perhaps a Caitian crewmember will walk into the mess hall and ask if he/she can has cheezburger?
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Old May 9 2012, 09:56 PM   #215
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by that. But as I explained above, the limitations I ascribed to the slingshot process are grounded in the actual physics of a Tipler curve. So if that's what you're referring to, I don't think "artificial" would be the right word for it.
In real life, I wouldn't argue with you. But from a in-universe point of view, if felt "wrong".
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Old May 9 2012, 10:27 PM   #216
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
RPJOB wrote: View Post
An early chapter in the first Vanguard book has a Caitian being diagnosed with a hairball. And PAD plays up the cat angle even more with "They're in, the're out, they're in" regarding their Federation membership. I'm sure at some time we'll see one with a litterbox in their quarters and someone will distract a Caitian security guard with nothing more than a laser pointer.


Or perhaps a Caitian crewmember will walk into the mess hall and ask if he/she can has cheezburger?

OOOOOoohhhhh . . . I TOTALLY want to do that!!!

Caitians are mainly side characters and their culture hasn't been developed much. Certain types of species are bound to be somewhat stereotyped. In small amounts it is funny, creative, and can bring some comic relief. As a contrast, Vanguard also had a very valiant Caitian who was killed in the line of duty defending her shipmates.
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Old May 9 2012, 10:38 PM   #217
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

BillJ wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
BillJ wrote: View Post
I'm not sure what you mean by that. But as I explained above, the limitations I ascribed to the slingshot process are grounded in the actual physics of a Tipler curve. So if that's what you're referring to, I don't think "artificial" would be the right word for it.
In real life, I wouldn't argue with you. But from a in-universe point of view, if felt "wrong".
Felt perfectly fine to me -- and it went a long way towards explaining why we've never seen the slingshopt process used again post-TVH.
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Old May 9 2012, 11:20 PM   #218
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

There is a DC Comics story set in the movie era, "Echoes of Yesterday" in Star Trek Special #3, in which aliens use the slingshot effect to go back in time -- but, conveniently, they learn how to do it by forcibly reading Kirk's mind. It's not 100% consistent with FH because Kirk says in the story that he doesn't know the details of how it's done, but with a little fudging, it can be interpreted that they extracted the special knowledge that Kirk, Spock, and Scotty kept to themselves according to FH.
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Old May 10 2012, 01:06 AM   #219
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
There is a DC Comics story set in the movie era, "Echoes of Yesterday" in Star Trek Special #3, in which aliens use the slingshot effect to go back in time -- but, conveniently, they learn how to do it by forcibly reading Kirk's mind. It's not 100% consistent with FH because Kirk says in the story that he doesn't know the details of how it's done, but with a little fudging, it can be interpreted that they extracted the special knowledge that Kirk, Spock, and Scotty kept to themselves according to FH.
So you're proposing that Kirk & company discover a means to travel back in time, keep important details from Starfleet and use that as leverage to get the mission back to 1968? What happens if they are lost on this or any other mission? The federation would have lost that knowledge forever. Sorry, doen't make sense to me.

If they kept the knowledge to themselves and NEVER used it again I could see your point but they travelled back in time using the slingshot maneuver just a few months after discovering it. Not to save Earth. Not to put things right. For simple historical research. What other information would the decide to keep to themselves?

They decided to keep Cochrane's existence secret because the galaxy already thought he was dead. And, as we saw in Federation, that came back to bite them pretty hard on the ass not much later. At least they had a good reason for that.

Sorry, don't buy it.
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Old May 10 2012, 01:11 AM   #220
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

You should probably read Forgotten History.
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Old May 10 2012, 01:22 AM   #221
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

What BillJ said.
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Old May 10 2012, 01:55 AM   #222
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

RPJOB wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
There is a DC Comics story set in the movie era, "Echoes of Yesterday" in Star Trek Special #3, in which aliens use the slingshot effect to go back in time -- but, conveniently, they learn how to do it by forcibly reading Kirk's mind. It's not 100% consistent with FH because Kirk says in the story that he doesn't know the details of how it's done, but with a little fudging, it can be interpreted that they extracted the special knowledge that Kirk, Spock, and Scotty kept to themselves according to FH.
So you're proposing that Kirk & company discover a means to travel back in time, keep important details from Starfleet and use that as leverage to get the mission back to 1968?
No, he's not. And you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Old May 10 2012, 03:00 AM   #223
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Christopher wrote: View Post
There is a DC Comics story set in the movie era, "Echoes of Yesterday" in Star Trek Special #3, in which aliens use the slingshot effect to go back in time -- but, conveniently, they learn how to do it by forcibly reading Kirk's mind. It's not 100% consistent with FH because Kirk says in the story that he doesn't know the details of how it's done, but with a little fudging, it can be interpreted that they extracted the special knowledge that Kirk, Spock, and Scotty kept to themselves according to FH.
So what special knowledge did they keep to themselves? Would it prevent other Starfleet ships from using the slingshot method of time travel?

No, I haven't read Forgotten History yet but I don't mind spoilers.

I just don't see why time travels should be portrayed differently in the novels than it was on the screen. In the broadcast episodes there was some form of time travel or temporal incident about every six months. To suddenly claim that it's next to impossible or that only ships from the series have done it just seems very odd to me. It's been portrayed as unusual but not especially uncommon. There's been enough time travel that the Federation (and other major powers) even has an entire department committed to studying it. Even Bashir, a medical student, took a course in temporal mechanics. It's hardly secret.

In TVH they made the decision to travel back in time with 30 seconds of discussion. They then did it in a rattletrap old Klingon ship what suffered exactly one blown out panel from the stress and that was at the communications station.

I don't understand the need to retcon how time travel is handled. There's no need to throw up roadblocks to something that's been a part of Trek since the fourth episode.
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Old May 10 2012, 04:48 AM   #224
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Because Trek has always been partly about real(istic) science, and so all Christopher has been doing is finding a way to make the time travel stories more consistent with themselves, and make the science more consistent with real(istic) (Trek) science.
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Old May 10 2012, 05:39 AM   #225
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Re: DTI: Forgotten History by C. L. Bennett Review Thread (Spoilers!)

In a franchise that includes rock creatures, shrinking people, hyper acceleration, faster than light travel, phasers, transporters, translators that can translate new languages instantly, aliens that mostly look like people, giant clones, cat people, shape shifters, energy creatures, cyborgs and so much more I just don't see the need to attempt to quantify time travel. It's not a science documentary, it's entertainment.

Looking forward to your next non DTI novel. I don't think DTI is for me. Hope to see you back on Titan at some point. Orion's Hounds was some of your best work Christopher.
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