RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,695
Posts: 5,431,237
Members: 24,830
Currently online: 510
Newest member: honeybadger


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy

Science Fiction & Fantasy Farscape, Babylon 5, Star Wars, Firefly, vampires, genre books and film.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old May 8 2012, 01:08 AM   #886
Caliburn24
Commodore
 
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

I can't help but think that Revolution is at least in part inspired by Stirling's "Dies the Fire", in that book various characters theorize about what caused the event, but it is not a plot point. It is just the event that sets everything else in motion.
Caliburn24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 01:13 AM   #887
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

So, the story is that the laws of physics change, but nobody puts any effort into finding out why or "changing it back" because that's not the story - instead, the story is how people cope with being cast back to the 19th C or even earlier, before telegraphs. Would steam power still work?

Anyway, that might be interesting, but hard to pull off. It depends so heavily on the characters being compelling and the audience caring whether they live or die. Just look at Alcatraz or Terra Nova and imagine those characters in this story. I wouldn't give a flip about any of it.

It could be great, but the odds would be better if they had some gimmick to amp the action every so often. Zombie attacks are a great way to distract from characters who are starting to annoy you.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 01:42 AM   #888
stj
Rear Admiral
 
stj's Avatar
 
Location: the real world
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Is Stirling's Dies the Fire the opening of the series where he imagines the return of feudalism with modern people? (Yes, a contradiction in terms but there seems to be something wrong with Stirling's brain [Draka series.]) Revolution may be taking off from that and focusing on the overthrow of democracy/capitalism/namby pamby couch potatoes.

Raymond F. Jones' The Year When Stardust Fell had a similar but more logical premise, in which dust from a comet tail caused all metal moving surfaces in contact to cold weld. Voila! Basically no modern machinery. And this was published in 1958 before solid state electronics really took off.
__________________
The people of this country need regime change here, not abroad.
stj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 01:52 AM   #889
Caliburn24
Commodore
 
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Yeah Dies the Fire is Stirling's attempt at neo-feudalism.

If the eventual trailer for Revolution shows that guns and cars are not working anymore the suspicion that they are copying Stirling is just going to increase.
Caliburn24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 02:51 AM   #890
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

What the suits are looking for this season. Short answer: more comedies and attention getting dramas.

I checked out the cast of Revolution. Other than Giancarlo Esposito, nobody really stands out.

Here's a little more info; Esposito is the bad guy, so that's good news:

Billy Burke stars as Miles Matheson, a former Marine who reluctantly finds himself aiding his niece Charlie (Tracy Spiradakos) in her quest to rescue her brother Danny (Graham Rogers) from the dangerous Captain Tom Neville (Giancarlo Esposito). Andrea Roth and Tim Guinee also star as Charlie and Danny's parents, Rachel and Ben; with David Lyons as Miles's old Marine pal; and Anna Lise Phillips, Zak Orth, J.D. Pardo and Maria Howell as various residents who aid the group in their quest.
Edit: painfully corny cast photo. They've got their weapons of choice already!

I was curious where the show is supposed to be set. They're filming the pilot in Atlanta, so maybe they can borrow some zombies from TWD?

Working Class Hero
(basically, The Incredibles as a TV series) is still alive at FOX.

Last edited by Temis the Vorta; May 8 2012 at 03:23 AM.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 03:22 AM   #891
Caliburn24
Commodore
 
Location: Gig Harbor, Washington
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

So judging from the cast photo guns are inoperable. Good, it'll give the show a different flavor than Walking Dead. I just hope they're willing to go as dark as the premise demands.
Caliburn24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 03:59 AM   #892
startrekwatcher
Rear Admiral
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
I checked out the cast of Revolution. Other than Giancarlo Esposito, nobody really stands out.

Here's a little more info; Esposito is the bad guy, so that's good news:

Billy Burke stars as Miles Matheson, a former Marine who reluctantly finds himself aiding his niece Charlie (Tracy Spiradakos) in her quest to rescue her brother Danny (Graham Rogers) from the dangerous Captain Tom Neville (Giancarlo Esposito). Andrea Roth and Tim Guinee also star as Charlie and Danny's parents, Rachel and Ben; with David Lyons as Miles's old Marine pal; and Anna Lise Phillips, Zak Orth, J.D. Pardo and Maria Howell as various residents who aid the group in their quest.
Edit: painfully corny cast photo. They've got their weapons of choice already!

I was curious where the show is supposed to be set. They're filming the pilot in Atlanta, so maybe they can borrow some zombies from TWD?
Let's see--JJ Abrams + NBC + apocalyptic atmosphere= MEH
Working Class Hero (basically, The Incredibles as a TV series) is still alive at FOX.
No Ordinary Family was canned a few years ago--no thanks.

No more event-dramas.
startrekwatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 04:11 AM   #893
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
You're missing the point, which is that there's no need to force every work of fiction into a single genre category. A single work can fit into more than one genre at the same time.
How can I be missing the point when I've said that about a hundred times already?
No, you've been saying just the opposite. You've been insisting on a narrow definition of "Western" that excludes any hybrids of Western elements with other genres or settings. You're trying to erect rigid walls between genres and define them in exclusionistic terms, which is grossly missing the point of what genre is.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 09:23 AM   #894
RJDiogenes
Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion
 
RJDiogenes's Avatar
 
Location: RJDiogenes of Boston
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Revolution doesn't sound intriguing at all. The "all forms of energy" makes no sense. Presumably, it's just meant to take away technology, but they will still be able to have campfires and stuff (not to mention cellular activity), but it sounds like a bland post-whimpering-Apocalypse to me.
__________________
Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards!
RJDiogenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 09:25 AM   #895
RJDiogenes
Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion
 
RJDiogenes's Avatar
 
Location: RJDiogenes of Boston
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Christopher wrote: View Post
RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
You're missing the point, which is that there's no need to force every work of fiction into a single genre category. A single work can fit into more than one genre at the same time.
How can I be missing the point when I've said that about a hundred times already?
No, you've been saying just the opposite. You've been insisting on a narrow definition of "Western" that excludes any hybrids of Western elements with other genres or settings. You're trying to erect rigid walls between genres and define them in exclusionistic terms, which is grossly missing the point of what genre is.
You obviously haven't been paying attention. I've said many, many times that concepts can and do fall into multiple genres. Go back and re-read. Why would the fact that words have meanings mean that you can't use more than one word?
__________________
Please stop by my Gallery and YouTube Page for a visit. And read Trunkards!
RJDiogenes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 02:15 PM   #896
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Yes, you've said that about other things, but you're stubbornly ignoring it when it comes to how Westerns are defined. So you're not even being consistent.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 06:08 PM   #897
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

So ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happened in new York City between 1840 and 1890?

(Far and Away, and the Gangs of New York?)
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 07:27 PM   #898
Harvey
Admiral
 
Harvey's Avatar
 
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Outland uses the semantics of space opera to tell a story with the syntax of High Noon. So is it a Western? Semantically, no, but syntactically, hell yes, blatantly so. It's not a simple yes/no question, because one story can fit in more than one genre.
So if a Western uses the syntax of Space Opera, then it's a Space Opera?
The first thing I would say is that Outland isn't without semantic elements of the Western genre, such as the mining town setting and the town marshal (complete with tin star and shotgun) who stubbornly sticks to his ideals against all else.

The second thing I would say is yes. I'm not sure why you're so aggressively arguing against this idea, since you claim that you have no problems with genre hybridization.

Even if there were examples that fell into a gray area, I'd hardly call the definition of a Western too limiting to be useful.
Your definition of the Western film is narrow to the point of excluding Western films that aren't even on the fringes of the genre. That's a textbook example of a useless generic definition.

In reviews, those films were referred to as "Westerns." In advertising, the iconography of the Western was emphasized (with each film belonging to a separate cycle of Westerns). In the video store the movies would be found next to other Westerns. On IMDB, the genre listing is "Western."
So what? As noted, all sorts of non-SF material is lumped under "Sci Fi" by reviewers and Blockbuster clerks who don't know any better.
First, looking at reviews of The Proposition on Metacritic, I can't find a single one that doesn't call the film a Western. You might think some of these reviewers are knuckleheads, but do you really suggest dismissing them all? Historically, I should point out, film critics have often played an important role in establishing generic terms. "Musical," for example, was just an adjective to describe other genres until film critics began using it to describe what we now understand as a genre (Rick Altman has a great book on the musical that discusses this in detail).

Second, you've ignored a key part of my point here, which not only was that shopkeepers and reviewers identified these films as Westerns, but the producers of these films also identified them as such. I suppose you're dismissing them, too?

If a Western has to take place in the American West, then The Magnificent Seven doesn't really qualify, either. The Mexican villagers briefly cross the border to recruit some American gunslingers, but 90% of the proceedings take place in Mexico. Or do Westerns set mostly or entirely in Mexico get a pass because of the country's proximity to the West?
It's still the North American West. Borders have nothing to do with it. The classification of a movie as a Western doesn't depend on whether or not it's set before or after California became a state.
Borders obviously have something to do with it, since you've dismissed the thought of Australian Westerns based on geography alone. I'm not sure why you've introduced California's statehood (1850) to the conversation, although I suspect you'd subscribe to a definition that limits the genre to films taking place in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.

Of course, your geographic limitations eliminate Westerns like Rage at Dawn (which takes place in Pennsylvania) and Saskatchewan (which takes place in Canada).
__________________
"This begs explanation." - de Forest Research on Star Trek

My blog: Star Trek Fact Check.
Harvey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 07:29 PM   #899
Temis the Vorta
Fleet Admiral
 
Temis the Vorta's Avatar
 
Location: Tatoinne
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Caliburn24 wrote: View Post
So judging from the cast photo guns are inoperable. Good, it'll give the show a different flavor than Walking Dead. I just hope they're willing to go as dark as the premise demands.
At least I won't have to keep yelling at the TV, WHY DON'T YOU ALL HAVE CROSSBOWS BY NOW!!! Like I do with a certain other show that shall remain nameless. Maybe the Revolution people glommed the entire crossbow supply in the greater Atlanta area.

RJDiogenes wrote: View Post
Revolution doesn't sound intriguing at all. The "all forms of energy" makes no sense. Presumably, it's just meant to take away technology, but they will still be able to have campfires and stuff (not to mention cellular activity), but it sounds like a bland post-whimpering-Apocalypse to me.
If fire doesn't work, then that begs other questions - why does human metabolism still work? And that way lies madness.

Wiping out all the technology in such a specific and targetted way can only be explained as a prelude to alien invasion.
Temis the Vorta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 8 2012, 07:34 PM   #900
Kegg
Rear Admiral
 
Kegg's Avatar
 
Location: Ireland.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
At least I won't have to keep yelling at the TV, WHY DON'T YOU ALL HAVE CROSSBOWS BY NOW!!!
But then how could we tell which one is Darryl and which one is the other ones?
__________________
'Spock is always right, even when he's wrong. It's the tone of voice, the supernatural reasonability; this is not a man like us; this is a god.'
- Philip K. Dick
Kegg is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.