My copy of Shada arrived today

[Rarewolf]

23skidoo wrote:

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When they get around to doing an audio of Ribos Operation they better use the original text otherwise fans of the late Ian Marter will be plenty pissed.

Surprised you missed it, that was out before Stones, read by John Leeson.

With the two new David Fisher adaptions of his two scripts - its just that - they are his scripts. They could go back to the source rather than employ someone new.

Personallly I'd quite like to hear Bob Baker re-novelise Armageddon Factor, he's never written a Doctor Who novel.

I do wonder how they will tackle some of the smaller classics though. A Boxset perhaps?

[23skidoo]

Rarewolf wrote:

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Surprised you missed it, that was out before Stones, read by John Leeson.

I did miss it (scuttles over to Amazon....)

(...scuttles back because I haven't hit Submit Reply yet...)

With the two new David Fisher adaptions of his two scripts - its just that - they are his scripts. They could go back to the source rather than employ someone new.

Personallly I'd quite like to hear Bob Baker re-novelise Armageddon Factor, he's never written a Doctor Who novel.

I do wonder how they will tackle some of the smaller classics though. A Boxset perhaps?

I agree, if they're going to do it, then this is the right way to go about it. Especially in the cases of writers who express regret at not doing so before (which I believe is the case with David Fisher). The only problem is the versions by Dicks, Marter and the other house writers are also a part of the history. I'd actually rather see readings of the original books included as bonus items (maybe MP3 files) so one can compare. I mentioned earlier I wasn't that thrilled with Fisher's adaptation of Stones of Blood. I've seen a few folks comment that they liked Dicks' version better. Just because you can write a good story for TV doesn't necessarily mean you can write a novel. That said, I won't write off Androids of Tara out of hand just because I didn't care for Stones of Blood.

A box set would be a great idea, but probably themed. A natural choice would be the four Trial of a Time Lord novelisations (now that's a candidate for a redo as the original novelisation for Mindwarp is still infamous for its "Peri as WWF wrestling valet for Yrconos" epilogue!) I assume none of them have been done yet (or maybe they have as I know they've done other Colin Baker stories and even some McCoys so they're not sticking with the older books).

Alex

(NOW he scuttles over to Amazon...)

[Pindar]

Anyone else finished Shada yet?

I have, it's excellent. I have one criticism, the word naughty is used far too many times but other than that I have no complaints.

[23skidoo]

Pindar wrote:

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Anyone else finished Shada yet?

I have, it's excellent. I have one criticism, the word naughty is used far too many times but other than that I have no complaints.

Dammit, I want to read the thing, but almost the day I got it I began a string of writing and editing jobs that has barely left me enough time to skim the latest DWM, never mind read Shada. But I did read the first few chapters and decided I like it a lot more than Coming of the Terraphiles (which lost me after 50 pages) so I'll have it read before too long, I'm sure!

Alex

[Pindar]

23skidoo wrote:

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Dammit, I want to read the thing, but almost the day I got it I began a string of writing and editing jobs that has barely left me enough time to skim the latest DWM, never mind read Shada. But I did read the first few chapters and decided I like it a lot more than Coming of the Terraphiles (which lost me after 50 pages) so I'll have it read before too long, I'm sure!

Alex

I only got it because you started this thread.

[Allyn Gibson]

23skidoo wrote:

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I did read the first few chapters and decided I like it a lot more than Coming of the Terraphiles (which lost me after 50 pages) so I'll have it read before too long, I'm sure!

Page 50 is about where I was ready to give up on Terraphiles. It wasn't bad to that point, but it wasn't what I was expecting. I was expecting trippy space opera, I wasn't expecting an extended Wodehouse pastiche. I was also expecting the Doctor to be more present; in the first fifty pages, the Doctor and Amy are supporting characters. It's around page 100 that Terraphiles kicks into gear and the Doctor does something more than have an extended vacation. At that point, it becomes very Who-ish.

Why not start the book at that point? Because there's a reason for the first hundred pages. Moorcock is setting up his world and the way it works. It's very Robert Holmesian, in a way, not unlike the first episode of "Caves" where you spend most of your time learning about Androzani Major and Androzani Minor.

I quite like Terraphiles. I struggled with it at first, but once it starts to move, it really moves. And I enjoy the fifth season more because of Terraphiles; Moorcock's book meshes well with the overarching plot of the fifth season and adds some new wrinkles.

[23skidoo]

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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Why not start the book at that point? Because there's a reason for the first hundred pages. Moorcock is setting up his world and the way it works. It's very Robert Holmesian, in a way, not unlike the first episode of "Caves" where you spend most of your time learning about Androzani Major and Androzani Minor.

I've considered that. I've tried 5 times to read the Lord of the Rings too and find Fellowship so boring that a few people have suggested I skip it and just read the other two. You and I aren't the first to note the "first 50" hurdle with this book (which I have to say makes the book a fail, I'm afraid, even if the rest of the book is fine). I'll probably end up doing what you suggest. I feel the book - what I've read of it - also suffers from the fact it was written before Matt Smith's Doctor was really established so I didn't think Moorcock got the voice right for him, at least early on. But that's not a huge deal as the same could be said for all of the Ninth Doctor novels, which would have been written before Eccleston appeared on screen, and they turned out fine in the end.

I guess I just expected Moorcock, being the first huge name in ages (ever?) to write a Who novel to hit the ground running a bit more. I'm not a fan of the "Start the story in the middle, then rewind to 'Three days earlier' and see how we got there" storytelling cliche that has invaded modern television, but I'd actually have gone for that with Terraphiles. Thing is, and I speak here as a professional book editor, it doesn't matter what your intentions are, if the reader is only 50 pages in and decides "I have better things to do with my time" which is exactly what my mindset became, the manuscript is a fail and probably should be rejigged in some way to address the issue, and it usually can be done without sacrificing the actual content. (Having not read the whole book, of course, I don't know if the "Three days earlier" format would have even been possible in Terraphile's case).

Alex

[Mr Pointy Ears]

I googled the latest rounds of dr who dvds and the site i got mentioned that Shada will be release along with a special dvd.

[23skidoo]

Mr Pointy Ears wrote:

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I googled the latest rounds of dr who dvds and the site i got mentioned that Shada will be release along with a special dvd.

Yeah, it might not be till 2013 (and for good reason), but the plan as I understand it is to basically reissue the 1990s VHS release of Shada (which had Tom Baker hosting and explaining what went on in the unfilmed sequences), with some additional material, and release it alongside the 1993 documentary More Than 30 Years in the TARDIS (which is why 2013 the anniversary year is assumed for the release). No word as to whether the documentary will be updated or not. No word either as to whether the animated Shada with Paul McGann will be included, though I'd assume not.

Alex

[Rarewolf]

I'd assume not too (they don't own the audio, and Big Finish don't own the visuals!)

Besides which Ian Levine would be livid if they did that.

He spend £25,000 to animate the missing bits properly (and professionally) with most of the original cast providing the vocals. But they won't (or can't) touch it.

[23skidoo]

Rarewolf wrote:

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He spend £25,000 to animate the missing bits properly (and professionally) with most of the original cast providing the vocals. But they won't (or can't) touch it.

It's his fault if he didn't get the clearances, unless he plans to release it on his own. But I read somewhere that Sylvester McCoy was involved or something. I don't remember him playing the Doctor in 1979. And I don't think Lalla Ward was involved either and I think the actor who played Chronotis died back in 1986 so I don't know exactly how many of the "original cast" were actually involved.

That said, absolutely nothing has been announced regarding Shada other than it will be paired with More Than 30 Years in the TARDIS, so who knows what they might have planned. And the inclusion of the extant footage from the unfinished fan film Devious on the War Games set does provide some precedent.

Alex

[Rarewolf]

Lalla's in it. All of the living cast except Tom. As you Denis Carey died in the 80s, David Brierley is no longer with us, so he got John Leeson to voice K9. The gent playing the porter also died, but his scenes were all completed.

Sylvester isn't in his Shada, he got him to film visual footage for his Downtime, Search Out Science and Destiny Of The Doctors Special editions.

He can't release them on his own, he did them on the hope the BBC would pick them (or at least Shada) up. He was behind getting the lost sequences of Planet Of Giants redone, and they will be an optional extra on the DVD later this year.

[Steve Mollmann]

Who the hell wants a "special edition" of Search Out Science? That's 20-something minutes of my life I want back.

[Rarewolf]

Steve Mollmann wrote:

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Who the hell wants a "special edition" of Search Out Science? .

Ian Levine.

His new linking material it's basically to explain why The Doctor happens to be presenting a quiz show.

[23skidoo]

Rarewolf wrote:

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Lalla's in it. All of the living cast except Tom. As you Denis Carey died in the 80s, David Brierley is no longer with us, so he got John Leeson to voice K9. The gent playing the porter also died, but his scenes were all completed.

Sylvester isn't in his Shada, he got him to film visual footage for his Downtime, Search Out Science and Destiny Of The Doctors Special editions.

I got mixed up somewhere along the way. I remember hearing about McCoy doing an expansion to Downtime. I wasn't aware Levine was doing anything with Shada. And I agree that expanding Search Out Space is pointless.

He can't release them on his own, he did them on the hope the BBC would pick them (or at least Shada) up. He was behind getting the lost sequences of Planet Of Giants redone, and they will be an optional extra on the DVD later this year.

Now that one is a good move. I had no idea myself that there was a "missing episode" with that story, and as the final complete Hartnell story to see release, it's a cool bonus.

I'm interested in seeing what happens with Downtime, as I remember the original and adding the Doctor to it would be interesting. (I want to see it in circulation again anyway because it features Sarah Jane and the Brigadier). If I had to hazard a guess as to where it might fit into the BBC releases, there was a report from one of the conventions a few months ago that commentary had been recorded for a planned DVD release of the incomplete The Ice Warriors. As Downtime focuses on what happened to Victoria after her travels with the Doctor, adding it to a release of that story would make sense.

Personally, I'd love to see BBC Video pick up the rights to do a "fan productions" box set and get things like Shakedown, Downtime, the Auton trilogy and Mindgame and the like into wider circulation. They aren't everyone's cup of tea, but they deserve recognition for keeping the Whoniverse alive during those dark years when the show was off the air. They also acted as a valuable training ground for many writers and other personnel (Mark Gatiss and Nick Briggs, to name only two) who went on to work on the TV series and for Big Finish and other shows as well. (That said, reportedly the PROBE spin-off series starring Caroline John as Liz Shaw and co-starring Louise Jameson, Peter Davison, Sylvester McCoy, I think Pertwee in one episode, and others, is being reissued on DVD around this time, probably only in the UK.)

Alex