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Science and Technology "Somewhere, something incredible is waiting to be known." - Carl Sagan.

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Old April 28 2012, 02:58 AM   #16
Crazy Eddie
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Re: How to build a Dyson Sphere in 5 easy steps (lol)

Deks wrote: View Post
Taking into account we had the technological ability for nearly a century to get things going, not to mention the resources and manpower... yes, I would argue it IS doable.
About as doable as building a dyson sphere, basically.

The really sick thing about this discussion is that, even if you were 100% correct in your long-winded breakdown of the problem and that was literally all we had to do, they would be mind-bogglingly difficult even if there was no opposition to them.

from a biological/technological point of view, we can only continuously STRIVE for it - improving on what we have.
That's like striving to create a dyson sphere by putting a small space station into orbit of the sun every other decade. I suppose by some definition of the word, that too is "doable."

As a species, we have the mental capacity for intelligent and efficient distribution of the worlds wealth/resources and the technological means to provide for everyone's needs
We also have the mental capacity to put our collective heads together and pick one random ethnicity to unilaterally exterminate just because we don't like them.

Using history as a guide to human nature, which of those is easier to pull off?

I'm hardly opposed to going into space and using those resources to help us expand and eventually even explore the solar system and the galaxy possibly (or see what we can do in space)... but seriously, this wasteful approach we have now is idiotic at best and we stand to lose a LOT more at the expense of the majority (even though it can be avoided).
You expect any different from a species descended from apes? Our closest genetic cousins on this planet spend much of their time throwing feces at each other or murdering rivals over the possession of fruit tress. As far as I can tell, the key difference between humans and chimps is that we've found more sophisticated things to throw at each other.
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Old April 28 2012, 08:40 AM   #17
Deks
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Re: How to build a Dyson Sphere in 5 easy steps (lol)

newtype_alpha wrote: View Post
About as doable as building a dyson sphere, basically.
Much simpler than making a dyson sphere actually.

The really sick thing about this discussion is that, even if you were 100% correct in your long-winded breakdown of the problem and that was literally all we had to do, they would be mind-bogglingly difficult even if there was no opposition to them.
I apologize for being long-winded, but it was necessary to illustrate what could and should be done. As for the difficulty... I'm hardly saying it would be 'easy', but current cities (as outdated as they are) could be modified from a technological point of view with renewable energy sources, heavy recycling methods, full automation, etc. within a time frame of about 10 years (most of which would be spent on maglev trains infrastructure) - less if you fully ramp up automation and have it replace 90% (if not more) of repetitive jobs that humans do - which has been possible for some time.

That's like striving to create a dyson sphere by putting a small space station into orbit of the sun every other decade. I suppose by some definition of the word, that too is "doable."
No, because on Earth, you already have an existing infrastructure and decent levels of automation that can be used to mitigate most problems in a relatively short amount of time. In order to create a space-station that could be moved into sun's orbit, you would actually need to create a building infrastructure in space itself (and we can use asteroid mining along the way in addition to heavy recycling and efficiency to reduce the amount of extracted resources) if you want to be efficient about it - automation would have to be used whenever possible as it can get things done inherently faster/better than a human could.

We also have the mental capacity to put our collective heads together and pick one random ethnicity to unilaterally exterminate just because we don't like them.

Using history as a guide to human nature, which of those is easier to pull off?
Taking into account that your example is based on culturally learned behavior (cultural propaganda if anything which is also rooted in lack of education) which is NOT universally shared anyway, education would be paramount. Exposing people to different ways of thinking, removing the dependency on money for survival, etc.
A lot of our issues stem from the inability to afford proper education/exposure, and a lot of the worlds population at large was able to stop picking on one ethnicity to exterminate it just because it's not liked by others exactly because of proper exposure and education.
Which is easier at this point in time? Not necessarily easy to tell because awareness/exposure has been on the rise globally via many methods of entertainment such as movies.

You expect any different from a species descended from apes? Our closest genetic cousins on this planet spend much of their time throwing feces at each other or murdering rivals over the possession of fruit tress. As far as I can tell, the key difference between humans and chimps is that we've found more sophisticated things to throw at each other.
Apes show collaborative competition and collaborative cooperation in a lot larger amounts though - along with peaceful resolution to conflicts.
Many humans also have a tendency to treat dogs better and provide them with a higher standard of living than they do with other humans.
Main reason why humans go to war is money, profit and to get the other nations resources (causing needless destruction, death, etc.) - instead of using invested money for war efforts to meeting people's needs around the globe.
I always tried resorting to diplomacy in terms of conflict resolution - with some humans it didn't work because they were so thick-headed to the point where they didn't want to listen - it wasn't a product of their 'human nature' though, but their upbringing after I dug around to learn more about them - a same/similar behavior was exhibited among many other inhabitants in my country as a child - there is a distinctive and recognizable pattern to the problem - learned behavior.
And, I was also able (after a time) to get through to some of them, and once we joined together to help each other in a collaborative effort, a lot of other things became easier - much more so than hostile form of competition ever did - this was repeatable throughout multiple countries - and studies today back this up.

Results? High probability that human behavior can be altered - in a non-forceful capacity no less, resulting in a level of cooperation that benefits all parties involved.
Logic and reason doesn't work on many though - you need to be able to approach them on their own level of thinking (know a bit about them) to get things going though.

As I said, a concentrated effort would be needed to encourage collaboration instead of competition via education, exposure and other methods.

And again... I apologize for the answers being a bit large.
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