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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

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Old April 26 2012, 04:43 PM   #61
CoveSanta
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
"City on the Edge of Forever"
Actually not one of my favorites. Far overrated, IMHO.
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Old April 26 2012, 05:09 PM   #62
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

CaptainMatt wrote: View Post
Save for a few isolated instances at rare points in my life, "The Voyage Home" never really appealed to me. I never liked Trek when they went back in time to the 20th century, that's not why I tuned in to watch in the first place.
See, I don't get this. To me, Trek is about watching the character development. Each week, there was something new, and we saw how the characters developed. What difference does it make if the incident that caused the character development was a Romulan attack or a trip through time?

Ziriath wrote: View Post
Here we have a probe (and it's a goddamn absolutely invincible probe!!)
It's invincible, so what? If you think that the default response to anything is to throw photon torpedos at it until it goes away, then I think you;re missing the point.
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Old April 27 2012, 04:16 AM   #63
Ugly Sweater
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

CoveTom wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
"City on the Edge of Forever"
Actually not one of my favorites. Far overrated, IMHO.
Please turn your Trekkie/er card in to security on your way out.
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Old April 27 2012, 07:04 PM   #64
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

A different thought about the glasses...

If we go with the idea it's the same set looping within a predestination paradox (hey, why not a pair of geese, or chickens?), the eyewear is effectively aging 300 years with each loop. If the loop is closed, then it is, in effect infinite, so the glasses should be inifinitely old. If they're inifinitely old, they should expereience "decay", first upon the macroscopic level, then the molecular level, then atomic, all the way down to universal "heat death". Ergo, they, in effect, don't exist...

Oy, yeah, contemplating temporal mechanics results in Excedrin headache # 42.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old April 27 2012, 08:28 PM   #65
Tiberius
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

Redfern wrote: View Post
A different thought about the glasses...

If we go with the idea it's the same set looping within a predestination paradox (hey, why not a pair of geese, or chickens?), the eyewear is effectively aging 300 years with each loop. If the loop is closed, then it is, in effect infinite, so the glasses should be inifinitely old. If they're inifinitely old, they should expereience "decay", first upon the macroscopic level, then the molecular level, then atomic, all the way down to universal "heat death". Ergo, they, in effect, don't exist...

Oy, yeah, contemplating temporal mechanics results in Excedrin headache # 42.

Sincerely,

Bill
That's true. But since the glasses have no date of creation, they wouldn't be able to exist at all.

This does give me a headache. IT suggests that the glasses CAN'T be the ones that McCoy buys 300 years later on to give to Kirk, but there's no mechanism in place to prevent it from happening... And if it happens once, it MUST happen again...
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Old April 28 2012, 12:24 AM   #66
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

Redfern wrote: View Post
If they're inifinitely old, they should expereience "decay", first upon the macroscopic level, then the molecular level, then atomic, all the way down to universal "heat death".
Protected by chronitons?
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Old April 29 2012, 02:39 PM   #67
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

The glasses first come into existence when they appear in the past, and vanish when they leave to travel to the past. So the glasses are 300 years old when Kirk gets them but turns new when they appear in the past, and that repeats itself.
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Old April 29 2012, 07:06 PM   #68
Tiberius
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

USS Excelsior wrote: View Post
The glasses first come into existence when they appear in the past, and vanish when they leave to travel to the past. So the glasses are 300 years old when Kirk gets them but turns new when they appear in the past, and that repeats itself.
Ah, but when the glasses appear in the past, they have already existed for some amount of time. If the glasses were alive, they'd have memories, so they aren't newly created glasses when the BoP arrives in 1986.
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Old April 29 2012, 10:56 PM   #69
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

CoveTom wrote: View Post
Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
"City on the Edge of Forever"
Actually not one of my favorites. Far overrated, IMHO.
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Old April 30 2012, 05:35 PM   #70
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

^ I didn't say it was bad. Just not one of my favorites. I've never been particularly fond of any of the love stories in Trek, and that is essentially what City is.
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Old May 1 2012, 04:01 AM   #71
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

RPJOB wrote: View Post
Trek has never really followed through with many of the discoveries that they've made. If you can travel in time and "correct" the timeline in a creaky old BOP, why isn't it done more often?
Because it's generally recognized that it's not a good idea. Too much potential to do more harm than good. And thus, there is the Temporal Prime Directive and the Department Of Temporal Investigations. When we do see it, it's usually accidental or the act of a rogue commander relying on his or her own judgment despite contravening regulations and orders.

CoveTom wrote: View Post
I actually don't apply the multiverse theory to most anything prior to Abrams Trek simply because that's not what the writers and producers at the time were intending.
Only problem here is that every writer who's written a time travel story had a slightly (and sometimes more significantly) different idea of how time travel works, often based on trends in popular thinking at the time. It's up to us to make sense of it in retrospect, and to adjust our interpretations based on new evidence where necessary.

Trek has made it clear time and again that there is a single linear timeline that our characters are moving back and forth within and that changes ripple through that timeline.
RPJOB wrote: View Post
Quite true. We've seen the universe change when McCoy went through the Guardian and when the Borg created the Vortex. If they were simply jumping tracks they both would have simply disappeared as Spock apparently did.
We saw what the characters, themselves isolated, perceived as the universe changing around them. How do we know this "change" wasn't actually them shifting between parallel universes? How would we, or they, know? And what difference does it actually make? Not a dramatic one, since our identification is with the characters and their perceptions, even if they are mistaken.

What's to say that the difference between an "alternate timeline" and a "parallel universe" isn't merely one of semantics, or that one isn't a subset of the other, outside of our interpretations of the writers' interpretations of what they wrote?
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Last edited by The Mighty Monkey of Mim; May 1 2012 at 04:10 AM. Reason: typo
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Old May 1 2012, 02:44 PM   #72
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

I prefer not to buy into the "alternate universe" theory of time travel because, to me, it takes the urgency out of the situation. If what you're doing doesn't actually impact the people and things you know and love from your timeline, and no matter what you do, there's going to be 47 different timelines created each exploring a different possible outcome, then traveling back to get the whales and bring them forward to stop the probe, or preventing Edith Keeler from allowing Hitler to succeed, or making sure Captain Christopher's son goes to Mars, all are pointless exercises.
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Old May 1 2012, 03:50 PM   #73
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

So people you know matter more than people you don't?

I mean, even if Our Heroes didn't save -their- Earth, they saved -an- Earth. I don't see how that doesn't matter.
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Old May 1 2012, 04:08 PM   #74
CoveSanta
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

DonIago wrote: View Post
So people you know matter more than people you don't?
Er... yeah. You don't care more about what happens to your family than what happens to Random Guy X three cities away? In the abstract, sure, I agree that every life matters. But in the real world, things that happen to the people I care about impact me more. What's so unusual about that?

I mean, even if Our Heroes didn't save -their- Earth, they saved -an- Earth. I don't see how that doesn't matter.
Because they're not even really "saving" anything. According to the way the parallel universe theory works, as described by Data in "Parallels," every possible outcome that can occur, does occur in different universes. So I do everything I possibly can to fix a problem and in Universe A it works, in Universe B it doesn't work, in Universe C the problem never existed, etc. And we're all just along for the ride. I might as well just sit and do nothing because, no matter what, there's going to be a universe where everything's okay, another universe where everyone dies, and every possibility in between.
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Old May 1 2012, 06:50 PM   #75
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Re: Star Trek IV kills me

I think Angel said it best- "If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
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