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Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

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Old April 25 2012, 04:14 AM   #46
BritishSeaPower
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

Was it? I read that nearly a year ago, so perhaps I've forgotten.
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Old April 25 2012, 04:51 AM   #47
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

Me too actually. I remember them referring to Lore, Lal, and Data's "mother", but I can't remember exactly what was said about them. Damn, I just checked Memory Beta and it doesn't have anything about IC in the Lore entry.
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Old April 25 2012, 05:09 AM   #48
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

JD wrote: View Post
Me too actually. I remember them referring to Lore, Lal, and Data's "mother", but I can't remember exactly what was said about them. Damn, I just checked Memory Beta and it doesn't have anything about IC in the Lore entry.
Yeah, I was looking a few hours ago. What a mess. It's like that one SNW story has overshadowed all other Soong android appearances.

It's been ages since I read it, but IC mentions that at some point after "Descent", Data had headed back to Soong's colony world of Omicron Theta and retrieved the first three prototypes first mentioned by the Juliana android in "Inheritance". The novel reveals that those prototypes, plus Lal, the recently "deceased" Juliana, and the disassembled Lore, were all stored in Data's lab.

Somewhere, but I can't recall exactly where, there was mention that Lore was destroyed beyond repair in the crash of the Enterprise-D.

After the revelations of "Nemesis", I told Jeff Lang that if he ever did a sequel to "Immortal Coil", perhaps the prototypes would be B-1, B-2 and B-3.
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Old April 25 2012, 05:31 AM   #49
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
JD wrote: View Post
Me too actually. I remember them referring to Lore, Lal, and Data's "mother", but I can't remember exactly what was said about them. Damn, I just checked Memory Beta and it doesn't have anything about IC in the Lore entry.
Yeah, I was looking a few hours ago. What a mess. It's like that one SNW story has overshadowed all other Soong android appearances.

It's been ages since I read it, but IC mentions that at some point after "Descent", Data had headed back to Soong's colony world of Omicron Theta and retrieved the first two prototypes first mentioned by the Juliana android in "Inheritance". The novel reveals that those prototypes, plus Lal, the recently "deceased" Juliana, and the disassembled Lore, were all stored in Data's lab.

Somewhere, but I can't recall exactly where, there was mention that Lore was destroyed beyond repair in the crash of the Enterprise-D.
IIRC, that comes up in KRAD's Articles of the Federation.
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Old April 25 2012, 06:37 AM   #50
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

Trimm wrote: View Post
IIRC, that comes up in KRAD's Articles of the Federation.
Aha! Yep! And there were three prototypes, known to Juliana, created either before or after the B-4.

After the revelations of "Nemesis", I told Jeff Lang that if he ever did a sequel to "Immortal Coil", perhaps the prototypes would be B-1, B-2 and B-3.
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Old April 25 2012, 10:15 AM   #51
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
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Aw, so I take that to mean that Cold Equations is going to eliminate Countdown from novelverse continuity? I rather liked that story...
"Countdown" was a comic mini-series. It's not necessarily in future novel continuity.
Yet there were some hints dropped in "Paths of Disharmony" and "Rough Beasts of Empire" that a vaguely Countdownish future may come to pass.
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I don't think Data would have uploaded his memories and such into B-4 if he believed they would overwrite B-4's own programming and essentially kill him.
Maybe the programming blended (rather like the recent blending of my two laptops' memories) and the "Countdown" Captain Data is the B-4 that happily embraced the gradual integration of Data memories?
A chapter in "The Needs of the Many" explained Data's resurrection in B4, in a direct set-up for "Countdown". Although, the circumstaces in the post-Destiny novels would require a somewhat different approach.
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Old April 25 2012, 11:29 AM   #52
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

I'm guessing we'll get something that doesn't result in B4 being killed.
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Old April 25 2012, 02:18 PM   #53
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

David Mack wrote: View Post
^ Absolutely not.
I guess I know now
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Old April 25 2012, 03:18 PM   #54
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
After the revelations of "Nemesis", I told Jeff Lang that if he ever did a sequel to "Immortal Coil", perhaps the prototypes would be B-1, B-2 and B-3.
As I've said before, that doesn't work for me because B-4 was simply too crude to be the fourth prototype out of six. Also because Julianna evidently didn't know about him, so he may have been built before she came along, before the other three. As I've suggested, B-1 through B-3 might've been nonhumanoid prototypes of just the positronic brain, or maybe, as the script itself suggested, "B-4" was simply a pun on "Before."
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Old April 25 2012, 03:48 PM   #55
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
Mr. Domino wrote: View Post
Aw, so I take that to mean that Cold Equations is going to eliminate Countdown from novelverse continuity? I rather liked that story...
"Countdown" was a comic mini-series. It's not necessarily in future novel continuity.
AFAIK, Countdown is part of the Star Trek Online continuity, which is incompatible with extended treklit.
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Old April 25 2012, 03:58 PM   #56
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
AFAIK, Countdown is part of the Star Trek Online continuity, which is incompatible with extended treklit.
Rather, STO chose to incorporate the events of Countdown into its backstory and the artists of Countdown borrowed the uniform designs from STO. But STO also borrowed some things from the novel continuity while contradicting others. And the final book in Shatner's Totality trilogy borrowed some Titan crew from the other novels while completely contradicting Titan's continuity. There are no hard and fast dividing lines where tie-in continuity is concerned. Different works can borrow bits and pieces from each other however they choose.

So if the editorial decision were made to make the novels consistent with Countdown, there's no reason they couldn't be. After all, that comic sold very well, so there could be good marketing/economic reasons to tie into it. It would just be something that both the novels and STO chose to be consistent with, just as they're both consistent with canon. It would just fit into their respective tapestries in different ways.
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Old April 25 2012, 04:04 PM   #57
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

Christopher wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
After the revelations of "Nemesis", I told Jeff Lang that if he ever did a sequel to "Immortal Coil", perhaps the prototypes would be B-1, B-2 and B-3.
As I've said before, that doesn't work for me because B-4 was simply too crude to be the fourth prototype out of six. Also because Julianna evidently didn't know about him, so he may have been built before she came along, before the other three. As I've suggested, B-1 through B-3 might've been nonhumanoid prototypes of just the positronic brain, or maybe, as the script itself suggested, "B-4" was simply a pun on "Before."
Do we know for sure that B-4 was crude? At the beginning of "The Offspring", Lal exhibits many of the same behaviours as B-4. That episode took place over weeks; Nemesis over days.
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Old April 25 2012, 04:31 PM   #58
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

^The movie made it pretty clear that B-4 was very simple and incapable of the kind of growth and learning that Lal showed. I mean, that was the whole thematic point behind the character.

DATA: The B-4 is physically identical to me, although his neural pathways are not as advanced. But even if they were, he would not be me.
PICARD: How can you be sure?
DATA: I aspire, sir, to be better than I am. B-4 does not. Nor does Shinzon.
Lal is completely different because she learned and grew readily. B-4 asked a lot of childlike questions but showed little sign of understanding the answers or being able to assimilate new knowledge or insight.
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Old April 25 2012, 05:34 PM   #59
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

I think Mack should throw a curveball and upload Tasha Yar's brain into B-4.
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Old April 25 2012, 05:39 PM   #60
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Re: Cold Equations by David Mack???

and then drop her on vagra 2
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