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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old April 23 2012, 04:32 AM   #31
Balrog
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

I loved DS9 and the DS9 ending. I found it quite satisfying and ended exactly the way the writers wanted it to end.

That's the one gripe I have with fandom - people gripe about what THEY want happen. I'm satisfied they got to tell their story how they wanted.
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Old April 23 2012, 05:47 AM   #32
Stone_Cold_Sisko
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

The Dominion War stuff was generally good, as was the sense of closure for many of the characters. But the Sisko and Path Wraiths stuff is pretty awful. Its clear the writers didn't really know what they were doing with that whole thread. They didn't plot it out well.
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Old April 23 2012, 07:34 AM   #33
Jono
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

Sykonee wrote: View Post
Shouldn't there be a bigger budget available for Season Finales?
I'm sure they had budget issues with the final episode. I swear I read somewhere that they overspent earlier in the season/throughout the season and that hamstrung them a bit for the final.

Can't find where I read that but here is something from MA on the finale in relation to the cost of using Farrell's images for the finale and why they weren't used.

After all, this was a show where we had to cut out hundreds of thousands of dollars from the original draft.


So it probably did have a bigger budget, but it was still not enough for what they wanted to do.
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Old April 23 2012, 04:29 PM   #34
M-Red
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

I enjoyed WYLB very much. It was bold, and I thought it was epic on multiple story fronts. It also gave us the goodbyes and narrative conclusions that I look for in a series finale.

(*Otoh, I don't hold the lack of conclusions against AGT, since it was supposed to be a capstone for the show while also being a transitional story for JLP and the crew..)


For a TV finale, WYLB covers a lot of ground and contains some great moments and heavy material.
-the invasion of Cardassia
-the final death of Weyoun
-the razing of Cardassia
-Martok's "victory" toast
-the treating signing
-goodbyes and Vic's song
-multiple love stories between characters
-the Sisko-Dukat showdown
-the farewell montage
-Odo and the Great Link
-a fantastic final fade-away shot to the music...


Really -- did you truly think Sisko was going to "die?" It took some courage for them to really do that....




And who didn't like this?



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Old April 23 2012, 04:40 PM   #35
Sindatur
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

I basically enjoyed WYLB, my only issue with it, was the timing of getting down into the Firecaves (Dukhat/Winn measured agaisnt the Dominion War being tied up vs. The seeming minutes it took Sisko to get there after the Treaty signing).

As far as where they went with that part of the story, to me, it fit perfectly into the rest of the Prophets/Pah Wraiths/Emissary story arc. And I'm so confused by all these folks who say Ben abandoned Jake and went off to live with the Prophets. It's not like Sisko contacted the Prophets and "Said, OK, I'm ready, carry me home to the Celestial Temple". He fought with Dukhat, to defeat the Pah Wraiths and they fell into a pit, which the Prophets grabbed him up from, and brought him to the Celestial Temple. He didn't go to the Fire Caves with the intention or knowldge he would not be returning to the Station.
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Old April 24 2012, 12:34 AM   #36
Hober Mallow
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

The Pah-Wraith story was ill-developed. It could have been interesting, with the build up over several episodes of events none of the main characters are aware of and it just kind of ends very suddenly.

Otherwise, I didn't think the finale was that bad. It wasn't great, but I liked how they basically wrapped up most of the story early so we could spend some time saying goodbye to the characters.
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Old April 24 2012, 01:13 AM   #37
gazomg
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

M-Red wrote: View Post
I enjoyed WYLB very much. It was bold, and I thought it was epic on multiple story fronts. It also gave us the goodbyes and narrative conclusions that I look for in a series finale.

(*Otoh, I don't hold the lack of conclusions against AGT, since it was supposed to be a capstone for the show while also being a transitional story for JLP and the crew..)


For a TV finale, WYLB covers a lot of ground and contains some great moments and heavy material.
-the invasion of Cardassia
-the final death of Weyoun
-the razing of Cardassia
-Martok's "victory" toast
-the treating signing
-goodbyes and Vic's song
-multiple love stories between characters
-the Sisko-Dukat showdown
-the farewell montage
-Odo and the Great Link
-a fantastic final fade-away shot to the music...


Really -- did you truly think Sisko was going to "die?" It took some courage for them to really do that....




And who didn't like this?



and Garak gets to go home..................to whats left of it
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Old April 24 2012, 08:04 AM   #38
myselfeneye
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

The ending was exactly what it needed to be. It suited everything that happened in the series, much like All Good Things was about everything that TNG had been about in its 7-year run; TNG had tons of temporal anomalies, bonding betweeen a very close crew, Q, humanity being tested...and DS9 was about hardship, overcoming adversity, loads of combat, and The Prophets. I get that this is a vast oversimplification and there's plenty I've ignored. Bear with me.

Sisko was for Bajor, that's right--which is why he had to defeat Dukat. He did that for Bajor. And the Pah-Wraiths had come up before. Remember The Reckoning? Remember the episode where Dukat tried to induct Kira into his Pah-Wraith cult on Empok Nor? Spooky stuff.
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Old April 25 2012, 02:54 AM   #39
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

The DS9 Finale wasn't quite all it was meant to be but I fully believe and accept that the writers did the best they could under difficult behind the scenes circumstances. Having read the official DS9 companion I know that plans were made so the writers of the finale could really take their time and get it right. Then people got sick and they had to fill in here and there and other stuff came up and in the end they just didn't have the time they'd hoped for. I still think it turned out great. I'm not bothered by any of the Pah Wraith stuff and pretty much enjoyed everything they did. But having read all that I can't help but wonder what might have been if the best laid plans hadn't crumbled somewhat.
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Old April 25 2012, 03:28 AM   #40
Gagarin
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

Better than AGT. Not because AGT was bad, but because DS9 was serialized, so there was years long tension and bondings coming apart and together. Character arcs arced after 7 years. It was... cathartic, while AGT really had to set up catharsis in 90 minutes by its own or by exploiting allusions.

Jadzia being dead harms the episode (and being absent from stock footage also does, but to a lesser degree). Also missing is a scene of watching the Dominion actually retreat back to the Gamma quadrant - that could have been rewarding.
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Old April 25 2012, 03:40 PM   #41
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

Those are good points. DS9's entire final arc could be considered the finale. After all, Rom and Leeta's arc is done prior to WYLB. It's a shame we don't see them in the finale. After all, a big finale like that should feature everyone it can in some way, shape or form--or at least it would be nice if it did. I don't think we saw Keiko or the O'Brien kids either, except in the flashbacks. So changed I'd have made would have been to include every character possible, even as a 2-second walk-by. Hell, I'd even have gone out of my way to show the guy who runs the Klingon restaurant. But that's just me.
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Old April 25 2012, 03:53 PM   #42
gazomg
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

Putting the sisko . prophets malarkey aside, the remained was brilliant.

all loose ends tied up..........
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Old April 25 2012, 05:19 PM   #43
bbailey861
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

I was very satisfied with how everything was tied up. There was a lot of story to cover and they covered it very well, with some memorable script lines. I was happier when the story continued seamlessly with the books.
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Old April 25 2012, 06:31 PM   #44
Shikarnov
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

The only beef I had with the episode was the omission of Jadzia from the memories montage at the end. She was Sisko's best friend, Worf's wife, and an integral part of the show for six years, and yet appears not once during the recap. I understand that there were real-world reasons for her not appearing, but you'd think Paramount could cough up whatever Terry Farrell's royalty would have been. How much could it have possibly been for a few clips?
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Old April 25 2012, 06:59 PM   #45
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Re: Why was the last episode of DS9 so incredibly awful?

From what's been said they didn't ask when they used her voice earlier in the season so the answer was flat out no for the finale no matter what the price was. It was on principle alone
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