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Old April 23 2012, 05:01 AM   #16
RoJoHen
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

Skipped a fair chunk of Season 2 after reading episode descriptions and realizing I'd seen some of them before. I just got done with "The Expanse" and enjoyed it as a season finale. It wasn't your typical Trek cliffhanger but more of a transitional episode into what will clearly be a longer arc in Season 3. I'm also starting to appreciate T'Pol a lot more now that she is starting to show the occasional emotion. She sounds a lot less like a robot when she speaks.
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Old April 23 2012, 06:32 AM   #17
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

With the exception of Season 4 Enterprise had some of the stinkiest speeches in all of Trek. Wait till you get to the Xindi Turtle soup speech.
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Old April 23 2012, 11:10 PM   #18
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

I thought this stuff was decent, the Vulcan stuff, the Andoran stuff, Archer .. the characters, all, good. Temporal Cold War, Super Weapon (season 3)? Zzzzzz.

Great character business in season 3, but the point of their mission and the Xindi and all that I hate it.
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Old April 24 2012, 03:01 AM   #19
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

Never understood all the Gazelle hate. Yeah, humans are gonna make mistakes and as T'Pol pointed out, so did the Vulcans.
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Old April 25 2012, 12:06 AM   #20
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

I'm not sure that there's "Gaze Speech Hate" per se... it's just such a perfect anecdote how pedantic and bland the writing, directing, acting and indeed entire feel of the series, at least in its first half, was. At least when the Shat had similar moments, there was that partly-mad gleam in his eye, like there was always still a little boy inside who thought everything around him was mind-blowingly cool. As for Stewart... well, he could read a menu with enough gravitas to stun a clown.

But when it's turn for Archer to give his big speech... he looks and sounds like a sitcom high school counselor. It wasn't Bakula's fault, and the result wasn't even awful... it was just dull, dull, dull. This was the conclusion of the second-season premiere, a chance to go big, do a gripping cliffhanger, gain or lose a cast member, shake up the status quo, promise wild adventures in the year ahead, anything. And what did we get? Chicken Soup for the Trekkie Soul.

Smallville's second-season premiere, for comparison, ended with Lex's first-ever intentional killing of a man. And it was awesome, because it was justified. We got a major step towards his becoming the villain, and we cheered him on for it. That felt fresh. That was exciting.
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Old April 25 2012, 12:42 AM   #21
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
KingDaniel wrote: View Post
RoJoHen wrote:
I finally saw the Gazelle Speech
Are you okay? Do you require medical attention?
To be honest, I think it has been overhyped. I actually kind of liked the analogy.

Yeah, there's really nothing wrong with the analogy, I think ENterpise was just ripe for the picking when it became "infamous". Too bad.

It's funny you dislike the characters so much. I actually think from top to bottom Enterprise has the best cast...not that they were especially great, but there wasn't a weak one in the bunch, unlike the other series.
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Old April 25 2012, 12:59 AM   #22
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

I don't get the hate for the gazelle speech. It sounds like something Roddenberry would have written for season 1 of TNG, which, imo is far worse than anything Enterprise ever did.
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Old April 25 2012, 01:21 AM   #23
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

Saul wrote: View Post
Wait till you get to the Xindi Turtle soup speech.
No wonder the Xindi Reptilians wanted humanity dead
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Old April 25 2012, 08:30 AM   #24
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

RAMA wrote: View Post

It's funny you dislike the characters so much. I actually think from top to bottom Enterprise has the best cast...not that they were especially great, but there wasn't a weak one in the bunch, unlike the other series.
I like the actors well enough, but I feel like most of the characters have gotten no development. I'm halfway through Season 4 now (I was sick yesterday and had a huge marathon), and I feel like half the cast has vanished. Yeah, they're still visible on the bridge, but Mayweather, Reed, and Hoshi don't ever do anything!
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Old April 25 2012, 07:07 PM   #25
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

Archer is not supposed to be able to hold great speeches on the bridge. He is a pilot and after one year in space he has not yet become a rhetorically skilled diplomat.
So at this stage this simply analogy fits his character perfectly. It even shows the progress that he has made concerning dealing with the Vulcans.
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Old April 25 2012, 09:27 PM   #26
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
... Mayweather, Reed, and Hoshi don't ever do anything!
Yep. In a lot of ways, it turned into the Tucker-T'Pol show. But I do have to say that underwriting three main characters provides a lot of fodder for fan fic. When the characters are more or less blank slates, we can write what we like (within reason).
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Old April 26 2012, 12:07 AM   #27
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

Mayweather suffered from the 'what is the helmsman supposed to do or say?' problem and a bad actor but Reed and Hoshi were pretty well drawn out characters. It's not like they got less screen time than any other minor characters of TNG, DS9 or VOY and they changed a bit over the series, feeling more at ease.
I agree though that the fourth season was pretty plot-centred such that the minor characters got little to no spotlight ... which is one among many reasons that makes me like the second season a bit more than the last one.
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Old April 26 2012, 07:11 PM   #28
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

horatio83 wrote: View Post
I agree though that the fourth season was pretty plot-centred such that the minor characters got little to no spotlight ... which is one among many reasons that makes me like the second season a bit more than the last one.
That's ultimately my problem with it. I've grown so tired of episodic storytelling. If you're going to do long story arcs, you need to find a better way to incorporate all the characters. People like Hoshi and Mayweather only ever got development when they set the arc aside and said, "This is a Hoshi episode" and "This is a Mayweather episode." As soon as the big story arcs began, they got pushed aside.
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Old April 27 2012, 12:46 PM   #29
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

Hoshi did try and kill herself to keep the Xindi from getting the information from her. That was pretty awesome.
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Old April 27 2012, 01:23 PM   #30
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Re: I finally saw the Gazelle Speech

I found the gazelle speech to be painful. Scott Bakula isn't an actor who can pull off the intellectual monologues of Patrick Stewart or the bad-ass Siskoness of Avery Brooks.

IMHO he is the major thing that let ENT down.

As for the series getting better, S1 and S2 have a few rare good episodes. It isn't until S3 that they actually seem to find their footing and make an ok series.
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