Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

[Pauln6]

Trek could be darker if dealing with nonFederation characters like planetary surveyors or smugglers but we'd be heading into Firefly territory.

[Bry_Sinclair]

Pauln6 wrote:

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Trek could be darker if dealing with nonFederation characters like planetary surveyors or smugglers but we'd be heading into Firefly territory.

The issue with Civvie Trek is also that they are limited to what they can do, what jobs will pay off for them. On a big starship there are multiple specialists to cover numerous mission types (diplomacy, research, security, etc).

[xortex]

Complexity is a tight wire act as it's tough to not do the wrong things sometimes. It's similar to how you treat a woman in some respects.

[Temis the Vorta]

I could see a new Star Trek series being successful on cable without being as dark as BSG. Just return to the TOS roots, and have a mix of episodes with the crew playing space cop (or maybe space sheriff on the frontier is a better analogy), space soldier (keeping the bad aliens at bay), space diplomat (helping the Federation with its difficulties, sussing out new potential members) plus the personal stories and Threat of the Week. Star Trek has pretty much forgotten the space sheriff type of story since TOS, and I'd like to see them return it to the mix.

The show would need to be more complex and grownup in storylines, characterization and themes, but that doesn't necessarily mean dark. Optimism is one of the salient features of Star Trek. They just need to avoid anything that smacks of being juvenile or simplistic (such as the sniggering approach to sexuality that VOY and ENT sometimes inflicted on us.)

What it can't afford to be is Terra Nova. That's a great counter-example for Star Trek - an expensive, SFX-heavy show on broadcast that is too simplistic and not targetted enough at grownup viewers. Falling Skies would be a good tone to try for (with better writing of course.)

I don't think it's necessary to come up with a premise for the series that's anything other than "Starfleet crew, doing its job." There could be a lot of elements, Section 31, the Mirror Universe, etc - but it would be too limiting to force the show to be only about that. Bring in the full range of everything Star Trek has to offer, and utilize it for intelligent, grownup drama that isn't too dark and depressing.

[CorporalCaptain]

Star Trek has had dark episodes all along. Here are some episodes leaning towards the dark side:

1. The Man Trap
2. Charlie X
3. Where No Man Has Gone Before
4. Dagger Of The Mind
5. The Conscience Of The King
6. Balance Of Terror
7. A Private Little War
8. The Paradise Syndrome
9. And The Children Shall Lead
10. Whom Gods Destroy
11. Let That Be Your Last Battlefield
12. The Mark Of Gideon
13. All Our Yesterdays

There are some others that arguably could be included. Perhaps not all of these are uniformly dark; there's a lot of silliness in some of them. There's a minority of the episodes represented here, about 1 in 6, but it's certainly not a tiny minority.

[Temis the Vorta]

Compare those episodes to any random episode of Deadwood and you'll see what I mean. Broadcast TV in the 60s (or today) wasn't allowed to do dark like cable does dark nowadays, not even remotely close.

Of course my point is not that Star Trek should be Deadwood. That's exactly what I don't think should, or needs to, happen. DS9 is about the right shade of darkness for Star Trek on cable. But in that context, it will look almost pollyanna-ish in comparison with the other shows on the same channel or just a click away.

[RandyS]

EmoBorg wrote:

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The world is a far darker place now, my friend. Star Trek was born in the idealism of the 1960s. Now we live in a far darker age. BSG was the last successful true sci fi show on tv and it was dark. Maybe a dark and exciting new star trek show is needed nowdays.

No it isn't. We need to get out from under all this "dark and gritty" bullshit.

And the idea that New Galactica was "true sci-f"i is not only laughable, it's absurd. Not to mention false. It was a over-rated soap opera that was trying (and failing) to be sci-fi. For another Star Trek show to work, it can't be "dark and gritty" because then it wouldn't be Star Trek. It would be a bastardization of Star Trek similar to the way Ron Moore destroyed the Galactica concept.

[Hartzilla2007]

I don't know about dark and gritty plot lines and stuff but can any new Star Trek series have occasional appearances by Cosmic Horrors and Eldritch Abominations I mean Q pretty much said this stuff was out there is it too much to ask that Trek remember that scary stuff is also somewhere out in the galaxy.

[EmoBorg]

First of all i want to apologise to C.E. Evans for slamming him like that in my posts. I was looking through my postings and i have realized that i was a jerk to him . My sincere apologies to him. We do need a future star trek series that is a mixture of both light and dark as C.E. Evans suggested .

I will concentrate on developing darker themed episodes instead of a darker themed series. I do have more ideas for darker themed episodes and as well as lighter moralistic ones.

1) A starfleet ship (defiant class) responds to the distress beacon of starfleet origins. They rescue a single crewman from a lifepod from a starfleet research vessel (nova class). The crewman informs them that their ship had encountered a borg tactical sphere and in the ensuring fight, the borg had assaulted and boarded the ship. The crewman was the sole survivor as the rest of the crew either died or got assimilated. But further investigations later in the episode reveal that the crewman had actually abandoned his fellow crew members to their fate while they were fighting off the borg drones and he had escaped in the lifepod before the fight was even over. Hence he is a deserter, as he left his crewmates to their fates.

(issue of neglecting one's duty to fellow shipmates,very unstarfleet )

2) A borg cube is encountered in the Alpha Quadrant and using Captain Janeway technology from the future (as seen in the Voyager series finale) the federation, romulans and klingons fleets combine together and manage to disable and board the cube. In the fierce fighting they manage to overpower the borg drones, either killing them or capturing them. Using the same technology that was used to recover seven of nine from the collective and restore her individualism, the alpha quadrants powers restore thousands of captured drones to their individualism. These ex borg drones come from many different species and are from the alpha,beta,gamma and delta quadrants. In some cases the restored individuals are the only surviouring members of their race left as their entire race was either assimilated or died off. Some liberated drones find it hard to adjust to their new found freedom. there are cases of suicides and violence breaking out as many ex drones simpily cannot cope with their individualism.

(an enslaved people getting their freedom but finding it hard to adjust to it)

3) A remote Starfleet long range exploration starship in the far reaches of the Beta Quadrant encounters a very ancient looking large ship derelict in space drifting aimlessly. the crew board the ship and discover an abandoned ship. To their surprise, when they try to turn on some of the systems to better understand where the ship came from, they find a borg signal. but the vessel is not a sphere or a cube or looks like anything from the borg collective. it is of a conventional ship design. Further into the episode, as they acesses the ship's computer files, they discover very shocking details. This ship belonged to species 1. The species from which the borg came from originally .

(finally we get to know about the origins of the borg in a canon star trek show)

4) A human starfleet member complains about his daily life to his crewmates, like having to work with folks he dislikes in his department, his overbearing department head and his personnel dislike of Bolians who happen to serve in signficant numbers onboard the ship he is on. His prejudices against Bolians comes from several encounters with them (culture clash & different mannerisms). One day, his ship (defiant class) is back on earth for home visits and he beams back to his hometown which is in the american south. Unfortunately the same accident that caused sisko,bashir and daz to travel back in time in DS9 season 3 while beaming from the defiant to earth also affects him, and he is left stranded in the mid 19th century earth. The crewmember is either of african,hispanic or native american background (depending on what the writers wants). He happened to be beamed to the old south where he encounters prejudices as he is not white. Finally the Defiant class starship crew with help from Miles O'brien who is now a instructor at starfleet academy (special guest appearance by Mr Colm Meany) ,they help to bring back the temporaly displaced crewmember. The now changed crewmember learns that prejudices are not good to have and he is now more tolerant of bolians after that incident.

(an episode about prejudices)


5) a new starfleet academy graduate joins a starfleet ship. Many folks are wary of him as he is a Nausicaan but to the surprise of many, he is quite mild mannered and eager to please even though a little tempermental at times.

(stereotyping an enitre race based on a some bad apples is not a good thing)

6) a non federation race that requires aliens from outside their planets to convert to their belief system if you want to live on their planet for whatever reason. A federation citizen and his family stays on that planet for business reason He is then caught performing a ritual from his native belief system, even thought he had officially converted to that planet belief system. he is charged, found guilty and he is to be put to death. The federation intervenes in this matter.

(it is a prime directive issue regarding a federation citzen on a non federation planet and how far will the federation be willing to go for it's citizens rights like perhaps mounting a rescue thus increasing chances for hostilies to break out)

[Temis the Vorta]

Hartzilla2007 wrote:

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I don't know about dark and gritty plot lines and stuff but can any new Star Trek series have occasional appearances by Cosmic Horrors and Eldritch Abominations I mean Q pretty much said this stuff was out there is it too much to ask that Trek remember that scary stuff is also somewhere out in the galaxy.

That sounds good. More Doomsday Machines! Bring back the Borg, but treat them seriously. Being assimilated should be permanent, no exceptions.

[xortex]

New people, new things. No new wine in old wineskins. Exploration of the origins of Trek is the key to universe building a concept. Radical extreme departures are unnecessary just because what we have seen didn't all work. That is really thinking in opposites and not very attractive.

[Bry_Sinclair]

Again, there are some interesting ideas in amongst these, others would need a little more thought. What follows are just some thoughts to consider, in order to play Devil’s Advocate to help refine the ideas.

EmoBorg wrote:

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1) A starfleet ship (defiant class)responds to the distress beacon of starfleet origins. They rescue a single crewman from a lifepod from a starfleet research vessel (nova class). The crewman informs them that their ship had encountered a borg tactical sphere and in the ensuring fight, the borg had assaulted and boarded the ship. The crewman was the sole survivor as the rest of the crew either died or got assimilated. But further investigations later in the episode reveal that the crewman had actually abandoned his fellow crew members to their fate while they were fighting off the borg drones and he had escaped in the lifepod before the fight was even over. Hence he is a deserter, as he left his crew memebers to their fates.

An interesting idea. It does raise questions about how individuals react to different situations, and would ask people to think how they would react. Would they fight to the bitter end, or escape and save themselves. DS9 touched on it in an episode during the UFP/Klingon War, when Jake and Bashir are stuck on a colony, when a young soldier comes into the hospital after shooting himself in the foot in order to get out of the fighting. It is one thing that hasn’t been explored in depth (to my recollection): duty or survival? Training or self-preservation?

EmoBorg wrote:

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2) A borg cube is encountered in the Alpha Quadrant and using Captain Janeway technology from the future (as seen in the Voyager series finale) the federation, romulans and klingons fleet manage to disable it and board it and in fierce fighting overpower the borg drones, either killing them or capturing them. Using the same technology that was used to recover seven of nine from the collective and restore her individualism, the alpha quadrants powers restore thousands of captured drones to their individualism. This previous drones come from many different species and from the alpha,beta,gamma and delta quadrants. In some cases the restored individuals are the only surviouring members of their race left as their entire race was either assimilated or died off. Some members find it hard to adjust to their new found freedom. there are cases of suicides and violence breaking out as many ex drones simpily cannot cope with their individualism.

It would take one helluva fleet, not to mention thousands of boarding teams to pull that off. Not sure the three powers would commit so many resources to such a mission. More likely I would think they’d just aim to destroy the Cube. As for Starfleet sharing their new tech, it would depend on how stable their relations were with the Romulans. As for getting over being assimilated, that’s been done with Seven and Locutus. Not really sure there is much more that needs to be done with the idea.

EmoBorg wrote:

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3) A remote Starfleet long range exploration starship in the far reaches of the Beta Quadrant encounters a very ancient looking large ship derelict in space drifting aimlessly. the crew board the ship and discover an abandoned ship. To their surprise, when they try to turn on some of the systems to better understand where the ship came from, they find a borg signal among them but the vessel is not a sphere or a cube or looks like anything from the borg collective. it is of a conventional ship design. Further into the episode, as they acesses the ship's computer files, they discover very shocking details. This ship belonged to species 1. The species from which the borg came from originally .

I kinda like the Borg origins being a mystery. There has been plenty speculated (though I don’t buy the whole V’ger idea) but not everything needs an explanation. The Borg work best when they are an unstoppable force of cyber-zombies, set on one goal: brains, assimilating all the knowledge in your brains. They should be returned to that status, having learnt from all their encounters with Voyager, they come back bigger and bader than ever before.

EmoBorg wrote:

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4) A human starfleet memmber complains about his daily life to his crewmates, like having to work with folks he dislikes in his department, his overbearing department head and his personnel dislike of Bolians who happen to serve in signficant numbers onboard the ship he is on. His prejudices against Bolians comes from several encounters with them (culture clash & different mannerisms). One day, his ship (defiant class) is back on eearth for home visits and he beams back to his hometown in the south. Unfortunately the same accident that caused sisko,bashir and daz to travel back in time in DS9 season 3 while beaming from the defiant to earth also affects him, and he is left stranded in the mid 19th century earth. the crewmember being of either african,hispanic or native american background (depending on what the writers wants). He happened to be beamed to the south and where he encounters prejudices as he is not white. Finally the Defiant class starship crew with help from Miles O'brien who is now a instructor at starfleet academy (special guest appearance by Mr Colm Meany) ,they help to bring back the temporaly displaced crewmember. The now changed crewmember learns that prejudices are not good to have and he is now more tolerant of bolians after that incident.

Whilst some people may have some issues with individuals of other species, due to cultural differences, etc, out and out racism is a thing of the past by the 24th century for humans. Also on a Defiant-Class, which has only a crew of 40-50, it seems risky to air ones bigotry in such tight confines. As for the same accident that occurred on the Defiant, that was only caused because of the cloaking device, and as the only Starfleet ship with one, then this could be replicated. Going back in time so they can get a taste of their own medicine also seems a bit hammy to me. The issue of racism could be raised with a time travel plot, but I’m not sure you’d need the set up of the main character in question is a racist to begin with.

EmoBorg wrote:

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5) a new starfleet academy graduate joins a starfleet ship. Many folks are wary of him as he is a Nausicaan but to the surprise of many, he is quite mild mannered and eager to please even though a little tempermental at times.

I was once part of a PBeM Sim that briefly had a female Nausicaan science officer onboard. Since then I’ve loved the idea of having a Nausicaan in uniform and having to overcome the stereotyping of their race, whilst also trying to prove that he/she can fit in with ‘civilised’ society.

EmoBorg wrote:

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6) a non federation race that requires aliens from outside their planets to convert to their belief system if you want to live on their planet for whatever reason. A federation citizen and his family stays on that planet for business reason He is then caught performing a ritual from his native belief system, even thought he had offically converted to that planet belief system. he is charged, found guilty and he is to be put to death. The federation intervenes in this matter.

Why would an entrepreneur (who would obviously need to be educated and read up on the culture they were joining) risk his/her business future by not conforming and only performing their religious rights when off planet? Or better yet, why even go there if it interferes with their beliefs? It would be more of a legal battle than anything else, with lawyers and diplomats being at the forefront. The Prime Directive is something that is in place for Starfleet so I’m not sure how it would apply to a private citizen.

[Temis the Vorta]

xortex wrote:

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Exploration of the origins of Trek is the key to universe building a concept.

What, like the Birth of the Federation? An ENT replay (done right this time) is one of my perennial favorite ideas. It's so damn simple, why can't they get it right? The Earth-Romulan war forces Earth to find allies, which forms the nucleus of the Federation. Done and done.

[Sjaddix]

DS9 was sufficiently dark.

[LtChange]

Temis the Vorta wrote:

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What, like the Birth of the Federation? An ENT replay (done right this time) is one of my perennial favorite ideas. It's so damn simple, why can't they get it right? The Earth-Romulan war forces Earth to find allies, which forms the nucleus of the Federation. Done and done.

So true. I would love that too. And maybe, just maybe if they get around the idea some day once again they will understand that it ain't important for the ship to be called Enterprise, it ain't important to see the ferengies (and not call them by they name) or the borg, but it is important to be done right ... If cannon of the future series said nukes, give us nukes, if they say that humans never saw a Romulan face to face, keep it simple: do not show them face to face ... And one more thing: a 24th century ship turned upside down does not count as chunkier and bulkier and 200 years earlier model ... It really does not.