My first voyage with Voyager - Page 3

MacLeod · April 16 2012, 05:57 PM

Well the Vidiian's were a better threat than the Kazon.

Qutluch · April 16 2012, 06:03 PM

All things considered, they weren't that bad of a bunch. They were just pushed into a corner without many options for survival. They were at least polite and provided the technology for Neelix to get his lung transplant! Although, they could have left Neelix with at least one of his lungs in the first place.

Qutluch · April 17 2012, 03:22 AM

My verdict on Janeway is in after watching:

The Cloud

Janeway is beginning to realize that if the crew is stuck together for up to 74 years (a lifetime for the majority of the crew) and that the standard captain/crew relationship may not work. Personally, I look at it as more of a mayor/city relationship because of their situation. A mayor needs to have a strong foundation for a city, but also be more personable, getting to know his/her people. I like it that Janeway realizes that her role needs to change in order to fit with their current needs.

Wow, for the first time I actually like something that came out of Harry Kim’s mouth when he told Paris that they should have invited the Captain to sit with them, and explained to Paris that there isn’t anybody else for her to talk to besides them and that Paris was working by an old rule book. I am assuming that this episode is setting up the explanation/storyline on why there will be a less formal relationship with the Captain/crew. Sigh…my momentary delusion that Kim might be a decent fellow was shortly crushed when he told Paris that he remembers being in his mother’s womb... Why does Paris keep trying to make friends with Kim? He is too much of a namby-pamby. If he drinks late at night he gets heartburn…wimp.

We see more of Chakotay’s story beginning in this episode. I found his history interesting so I decided to look him up, but according to a few different sites his storyline is not accurate. Check out this article I found:http://www.spiletta.com/rubbertree.html. Wait a minute, Chakotay tells Janeway he has never shown anyone his medicine bundle and that it will help her find an animal guide, but when B’Elanna walks in he makes the comment that she tried to kill her animal guide. So obviously, he has shown it to B’Elanna.

Finally, we see the holodeck! Paris’ holodeck is full with a gigolos and women of the night! While I am excited to see a holodeck scene, I thought they were having an energy shortage.

Neelix really is a great character, or should I say Morale Officer. When in a free-fall…cook or sing! Even if he can’t cook, it was great watching him scold Janeway and trying to convince her to drink the coffee substitute. “There’s coffee in that Nebula.” While on the topic of Neelix’s cooking I am reading the Star Trek Cookbook; has anyone tried any of these recipes yet? The Talaxian Mushroom Soup sounds delicious!

Favorite part: My Janeway verdict: Badass…a captain who can hustle at pool…awesome! She even hits the eight ball in while glaring at Paris; not looking at the table! Janeway with a raised eyebrow: “Solids”. Oh, and to further her badassness in this scene she is graciously hit on by the Gigolo who wants to make passionate love to her! B’Elanna was not so lucky. She gets hit on by the older hustler in a trench coat with the pickup line: “Treat a lady like a tramp and a tramp like a lady; never fails.” (Needless to say, Janeway is still no match for Picard!)

Least favorite part: I don’t like the title. Considering the Nebula Creature is a living being I don’t think it would like being named after water vapor, or having torpedoes shot into its organs; or equivalent thereof…

I’m adding a second reoccuring least favorite part even though I really enjoyed this episode: Seatbelts, retractable straps, and a higher guard along the second deck of engineering so people don’t haphazardly fall everywhere when there is turbulence or a full free-fall.

JanewayRulz! · April 17 2012, 03:32 AM

I always assume that just because he tried to teach B'Elanna how to discover her spirit guide, doesn't mean Chakotay shared his medicine bundle.

My fav line? Oh that's easy.

JANEWAY: Dismissed. That's a Starfleet expression for get out.

Qutluch · April 17 2012, 04:23 AM

Chakotay did say that he needed the medicine bundle to help her find her animal guide.

JanewayRulz! · April 17 2012, 04:44 AM

Chakotay did say that he needed the medicine bundle to help her find her animal guide.

Yes he did , didn't he.

CHAKOTAY: My medicine bundle. I've never showed it to anyone before. After what you said this morning, I thought it was important to let you see.
JANEWAY: Will it help me find my animal guide?
CHAKOTAY: Eventually you'll have to assemble your own medicine bundle, but this will allow me to assist you in your quest for a guide.
JANEWAY: Now? Now.
(Chakotay goes up the step to the informal area by the window, puts his bundle on the low table and sits on the floor. It takes a moment for Janeway to take the hint and join him.)
CHAKOTAY: A blackbird's wing. A stone from the river. An akoonah.
JANEWAY: Akoonah?
CHAKOTAY: My ancestors used psychoactive herbs to assist their vision quests. Now they're no longer necessary. Our scientists have found more modern ways to facilitate the search for animal guides. Place your hand on it and concentrate on the stone...

I think when Janeway told Chakotay that she was worried aobut the crew, and how she wished there was a counselor on board to help them deal with their situation ...

(Yes, we are 70,000 light years from home, and if BY CHANCE you actually survive the trip, most of your family and friends will either be dead or moved on by the time we get home!)

... he rightly realized that Janeway herself was in need of a counselor. Think about it, despite of what Picard and Riker shared as Captain & XO on the Enterprise, it was nothing compared to what Riker and Troi shared.

PICARD: I, er, I don't know where to begin. It was ...
TROI: I read your report.
PICARD: What I didn't put in the report was that at the end he gave me a choice between a life of comfort or more torture. All I had to do was to say that I could see five lights, when in fact, there were only four.
TROI: You didn't say it?
PICARD: No, no, but I was going to. I would have told him anything. Anything at all. But more than that, I believed that I could see five lights.

SO Chakotay realized he couldn't just wait to give Janeway his usual tutorial on finding your spirit guide and devising your own medicine bundle. He realized he needed to lend her his bundle and send her quickly on her journey.

As always...

YMMV

Qutluch · April 17 2012, 04:58 AM

Eye of the Needle

They find a wormhole that is not much larger than their probe. They certainly cannot bring the ship through, but maybe a message. The wormhole is in a state of decay. There is somebody on the other side of the wormhole. B’Elanna concludes that the probe will be crushed in 72 hours. They are able to get a message to the Alpha Quadrant: A Romulan captain of a science vessel makes contact with them and then hangs up on them; so to speak…He finally talks to them again. Janeway sweet talks the Romulan into persuading his government to send the ship’s crew personal messages to their families. B’Elanna thinks she can use the visual link-probe to match the transponder frequency to beam the crew through the wormhole (this is why B’Elanna is chief engineer)… When the Romulan captain was transported over I kind of hoped he would get stuck! I haven’t seen much of the Romulans yet. It’s too bad that he is from twenty years in the past. Of course Kim wants to transport back to be two again; he loves to cry about everything! Janeway asks the Romulan not to talk about the experience with anyone because it may disrupt the space time continuum, but he already stated that he talked to his government about them, and they gave him a data chip from twenty years in the future.

A new cast member at the Doctor’s office... who cares about the crew member; we want to know how Kes is performing as a nurse! The ignorant crew member will only talk to Kes, not the Doctor, even when directing a question to the Doctor; digital prejudice similar to what Data faced. I like Kes’ outfits, and her attitude. She isn’t afraid to speak her mind! She complains because the Doctor is not treated well. We see the Data argument here: Kes argues that he is alive, self-aware, communicative, and able to learn so he deserves rights too. She argues that he should not be re-programmed because it would be like terminating his life. Janeway responds to Kes’ plea and visits the Doctor. His chief complaint is that people do not turn him off properly or they turn him off without asking. Janeway suggests that they program it so he has control of himself.

We are slowly being introduced to character’s back-stories. B’Elanna has a dead-beat Dad and she doesn’t get along with her mom. Kim talks to his parents every week, I would make fun of him for whining here, but I talk to my parents on a weekly basis still…
Janeway’s PJ’s are so much nicer than Picard ever had! Why does she get silk/satin and Picard gets a miss-fitted cloth grey robe?

Least favorite part: That I started to write that my favorite part was that their messages were sent home; only to find out that they probably didn’t because the Romulan died four years before they were lost in the Delta Quadrant.

Favorite part: The Doctor puts fear into the crew member who ignored him earlier, and he starts to think of himself as a member of the crew. He even asks Kes for a name…I can’t wait!!!! However, from what I hear I may have to...

teacake · April 17 2012, 08:49 AM

Qutluch wrote:

My verdict on Janeway is in after watching:

I was so nervous as to what this verdict would be that I had to go and get more wine even though it is Korean wine which is quite a contortion to get used to. As long as you don't breath in through your nose while drinking and have something to eat immediately after swallowing it's survivable.

Anyway, YES Janeway is a badass

And interesting about the medicine bundle. I guess he had the time and desire to get B'Elanna to construct her own medicine bundle to look for her spirit guide but with Janeway he sensed a crisis and let her use his.

Collingwood Nick · April 17 2012, 01:51 PM

I am curious - do you think Janeway played Simcity 4 as a child?

You_Will_Fail · April 17 2012, 02:57 PM

Shatnertage wrote:

I'm a huge fan of Kate Mulgrew. I can't speak to her talents relative to Oscar-winners, but I can say without a doubt that she's on the higher end of the spectrum of Trek actors. For example, I think she's a much better actor than Avery Brooks. She really seems to be living in whatever scene she's shooting, not just hitting her mark and reading her lines. It's the little things she does--body language, facial expressions, moving around--that just make her pop more than others.

Brooks sucked, that's fine. But I couldn't disagree with you more on Mulgrew, all those "little things she does" are exactly what annoy me. They're all so calculated and actressy, she seems to have trouble acting naturally in many of her scenes and it takes me out of the story, I feel I'm watching an actress portraying a character and not the other way around. That said, I find Mulgrew's performance in early Voyager ten times better. Unfortunately she just keeps getting worse as the show goes on...much like her character.
Also I really liked Janeway in the Cloud, I wanted the ship to feel like a family but....

Lipton · April 17 2012, 03:09 PM

You Will Fail: Mulgrew said in an interview that it was a constant challenge for her to play Janeway. Every day, she told herself she'd crack it, and every day she didn't.

I can't see anyone doing better than her, though. Her character was written with some very unique mannerisms which one couldn't duplicate naturally unless they had those mannerisms themselves. I think just about any actor would have struggled with it.

Shatnertage · April 17 2012, 08:10 PM

So is it time for the Janeway admirers to form a circle around Qutluch chanting "One of us! One of us!" yet?

Glad that you're liking the show. I thought that Chakotay had shown his bundle to B"Elanna, too (that sounds so dirty). And for the most part I'm not a huge fan of the holodeck on VOY, but you put it into a different perspective.

Back to why I like Kate Mulgrew as an actress...

A lot of what she does feels perfectly scaled to TV. Like in the clip where she's telling Tuvok the story about Kim's mom calling, asking if she could ship him his clarinet, and she does that little head shake just before she says no. It gives the sense that Janeway has a ton of energy and can't get the words out as quickly as she's thinking them--she's a little volatile. It's far different from Picard, who usually seems so measured. Well, except for that weird cough thing in "The Naked Now."

MacLeod · April 17 2012, 08:14 PM

To me part of the issue with Janeway is not so much how Mulgrew potrayed her but how she was written. An Actor has to more or less work with the material provided to them.

JanewayRulz! · April 18 2012, 04:28 AM

Shatnertage wrote:

So is it time for the Janeway admirers to form a circle around Qutluch chanting "One of us! One of us!" yet?

"One of us! One of us!"
"One of us! One of us!"
"One of us! One of us!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5fBfJYFfOk

Loved "Eye of the Needle."

GSnail · April 18 2012, 06:46 AM

I like your watching thread, mostly be cause I just started watching Voyager too, and I agree with just about everything you've said.

I like Mulgrews acting. It might not be very 'natural', but it's pretty boring watching people talk in real life, a few flourishes and little things like that really add to the scene.

April 16 2012, 05:57 PM	#31
MacLeod Vice Admiral Location: Great Britain	Re: My first voyage with Voyager Well the Vidiian's were a better threat than the Kazon. __________________ On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.

April 16 2012, 06:03 PM	#32
Qutluch Commander Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha	Re: My first voyage with Voyager All things considered, they weren't that bad of a bunch. They were just pushed into a corner without many options for survival. They were at least polite and provided the technology for Neelix to get his lung transplant! Although, they could have left Neelix with at least one of his lungs in the first place.

April 17 2012, 03:22 AM	#33
Qutluch Commander Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha	Re: My first voyage with Voyager My verdict on Janeway is in after watching: The Cloud Janeway is beginning to realize that if the crew is stuck together for up to 74 years (a lifetime for the majority of the crew) and that the standard captain/crew relationship may not work. Personally, I look at it as more of a mayor/city relationship because of their situation. A mayor needs to have a strong foundation for a city, but also be more personable, getting to know his/her people. I like it that Janeway realizes that her role needs to change in order to fit with their current needs. Wow, for the first time I actually like something that came out of Harry Kim’s mouth when he told Paris that they should have invited the Captain to sit with them, and explained to Paris that there isn’t anybody else for her to talk to besides them and that Paris was working by an old rule book. I am assuming that this episode is setting up the explanation/storyline on why there will be a less formal relationship with the Captain/crew. Sigh…my momentary delusion that Kim might be a decent fellow was shortly crushed when he told Paris that he remembers being in his mother’s womb... Why does Paris keep trying to make friends with Kim? He is too much of a namby-pamby. If he drinks late at night he gets heartburn…wimp. We see more of Chakotay’s story beginning in this episode. I found his history interesting so I decided to look him up, but according to a few different sites his storyline is not accurate. Check out this article I found:http://www.spiletta.com/rubbertree.html. Wait a minute, Chakotay tells Janeway he has never shown anyone his medicine bundle and that it will help her find an animal guide, but when B’Elanna walks in he makes the comment that she tried to kill her animal guide. So obviously, he has shown it to B’Elanna. Finally, we see the holodeck! Paris’ holodeck is full with a gigolos and women of the night! While I am excited to see a holodeck scene, I thought they were having an energy shortage. Neelix really is a great character, or should I say Morale Officer. When in a free-fall…cook or sing! Even if he can’t cook, it was great watching him scold Janeway and trying to convince her to drink the coffee substitute. “There’s coffee in that Nebula.” While on the topic of Neelix’s cooking I am reading the Star Trek Cookbook; has anyone tried any of these recipes yet? The Talaxian Mushroom Soup sounds delicious! Favorite part: My Janeway verdict: Badass…a captain who can hustle at pool…awesome! She even hits the eight ball in while glaring at Paris; not looking at the table! Janeway with a raised eyebrow: “Solids”. Oh, and to further her badassness in this scene she is graciously hit on by the Gigolo who wants to make passionate love to her! B’Elanna was not so lucky. She gets hit on by the older hustler in a trench coat with the pickup line: “Treat a lady like a tramp and a tramp like a lady; never fails.” (Needless to say, Janeway is still no match for Picard!) Least favorite part: I don’t like the title. Considering the Nebula Creature is a living being I don’t think it would like being named after water vapor, or having torpedoes shot into its organs; or equivalent thereof… I’m adding a second reoccuring least favorite part even though I really enjoyed this episode: Seatbelts, retractable straps, and a higher guard along the second deck of engineering so people don’t haphazardly fall everywhere when there is turbulence or a full free-fall.

April 17 2012, 03:32 AM	#34
JanewayRulz! Rear Admiral Location: North America	Re: My first voyage with Voyager I always assume that just because he tried to teach B'Elanna how to discover her spirit guide, doesn't mean Chakotay shared his medicine bundle. My fav line? Oh that's easy. JANEWAY: Dismissed. That's a Starfleet expression for get out. __________________ "But life is a battle: may we all be enabled to fight it well!" Charlotte Bronte

April 17 2012, 04:23 AM	#35
Qutluch Commander Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha	Re: My first voyage with Voyager Chakotay did say that he needed the medicine bundle to help her find her animal guide.

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

April 17 2012, 04:58 AM	#37
Qutluch Commander Location: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha	Re: My first voyage with Voyager Eye of the Needle They find a wormhole that is not much larger than their probe. They certainly cannot bring the ship through, but maybe a message. The wormhole is in a state of decay. There is somebody on the other side of the wormhole. B’Elanna concludes that the probe will be crushed in 72 hours. They are able to get a message to the Alpha Quadrant: A Romulan captain of a science vessel makes contact with them and then hangs up on them; so to speak…He finally talks to them again. Janeway sweet talks the Romulan into persuading his government to send the ship’s crew personal messages to their families. B’Elanna thinks she can use the visual link-probe to match the transponder frequency to beam the crew through the wormhole (this is why B’Elanna is chief engineer)… When the Romulan captain was transported over I kind of hoped he would get stuck! I haven’t seen much of the Romulans yet. It’s too bad that he is from twenty years in the past. Of course Kim wants to transport back to be two again; he loves to cry about everything! Janeway asks the Romulan not to talk about the experience with anyone because it may disrupt the space time continuum, but he already stated that he talked to his government about them, and they gave him a data chip from twenty years in the future. A new cast member at the Doctor’s office... who cares about the crew member; we want to know how Kes is performing as a nurse! The ignorant crew member will only talk to Kes, not the Doctor, even when directing a question to the Doctor; digital prejudice similar to what Data faced. I like Kes’ outfits, and her attitude. She isn’t afraid to speak her mind! She complains because the Doctor is not treated well. We see the Data argument here: Kes argues that he is alive, self-aware, communicative, and able to learn so he deserves rights too. She argues that he should not be re-programmed because it would be like terminating his life. Janeway responds to Kes’ plea and visits the Doctor. His chief complaint is that people do not turn him off properly or they turn him off without asking. Janeway suggests that they program it so he has control of himself. We are slowly being introduced to character’s back-stories. B’Elanna has a dead-beat Dad and she doesn’t get along with her mom. Kim talks to his parents every week, I would make fun of him for whining here, but I talk to my parents on a weekly basis still… Janeway’s PJ’s are so much nicer than Picard ever had! Why does she get silk/satin and Picard gets a miss-fitted cloth grey robe? Least favorite part: That I started to write that my favorite part was that their messages were sent home; only to find out that they probably didn’t because the Romulan died four years before they were lost in the Delta Quadrant. Favorite part: The Doctor puts fear into the crew member who ignored him earlier, and he starts to think of himself as a member of the crew. He even asks Kes for a name…I can’t wait!!!! However, from what I hear I may have to...

April 17 2012, 01:51 PM	#39
Collingwood Nick Vice Admiral	Re: My first voyage with Voyager I am curious - do you think Janeway played Simcity 4 as a child? __________________ I like you, lets be friends

April 17 2012, 03:09 PM	#41
Lipton Lieutenant Commander Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high	Re: My first voyage with Voyager You Will Fail: Mulgrew said in an interview that it was a constant challenge for her to play Janeway. Every day, she told herself she'd crack it, and every day she didn't. I can't see anyone doing better than her, though. Her character was written with some very unique mannerisms which one couldn't duplicate naturally unless they had those mannerisms themselves. I think just about any actor would have struggled with it. __________________ - Lipton, that one guy with the screen name of a tea company. "I canna change the laws a physics!" - Scotty Last edited by Lipton; April 17 2012 at 03:20 PM.

April 17 2012, 08:10 PM	#42
Shatnertage Rear Admiral Location: Boldly going everywhere.	Re: My first voyage with Voyager So is it time for the Janeway admirers to form a circle around Qutluch chanting "One of us! One of us!" yet? Glad that you're liking the show. I thought that Chakotay had shown his bundle to B"Elanna, too (that sounds so dirty). And for the most part I'm not a huge fan of the holodeck on VOY, but you put it into a different perspective. Back to why I like Kate Mulgrew as an actress... A lot of what she does feels perfectly scaled to TV. Like in the clip where she's telling Tuvok the story about Kim's mom calling, asking if she could ship him his clarinet, and she does that little head shake just before she says no. It gives the sense that Janeway has a ton of energy and can't get the words out as quickly as she's thinking them--she's a little volatile. It's far different from Picard, who usually seems so measured. Well, except for that weird cough thing in "The Naked Now." __________________ I don't say 'sabotage.' You say 'sabotage.' I say 'sabataage." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlOTRxt-dIw

April 17 2012, 08:14 PM	#43
MacLeod Vice Admiral Location: Great Britain	Re: My first voyage with Voyager To me part of the issue with Janeway is not so much how Mulgrew potrayed her but how she was written. An Actor has to more or less work with the material provided to them. __________________ On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.

April 18 2012, 06:46 AM	#45
GSnail Lieutenant Commander Location: Pancakes	Re: My first voyage with Voyager I like your watching thread, mostly be cause I just started watching Voyager too, and I agree with just about everything you've said. I like Mulgrews acting. It might not be very 'natural', but it's pretty boring watching people talk in real life, a few flourishes and little things like that really add to the scene.