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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old April 16 2012, 06:53 PM   #16
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Star Trek is about optimism for our future, in that we have evolved past our self-destructive ways, embraced difference and are on a 'quest' to better humanity. But that doesn't mean that they can't deal with dark and very real issues (in a sci-fi context), showing how the characters over come adversary (or possibly how they are consumed by it, only to rise from the ashes).

There is always hope, no matter how bad things may be, how bleak the immediate future looks. Trek should never shy away from tough issues and things that might cause controversy because the PTB want to 'play it safe', especially after they mediocrity that was VOY and ENT.

Have darker, grittier episodes, story arcs, character development, but I'm not sure an entire series would work that way without becoming depressing.
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Old April 16 2012, 07:05 PM   #17
C.E. Evans
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
Star Trek is about optimism for our future, in that we have evolved past our self-destructive ways, embraced difference and are on a 'quest' to better humanity. But that doesn't mean that they can't deal with dark and very real issues (in a sci-fi context), showing how the characters over come adversary (or possibly how they are consumed by it, only to rise from the ashes).

There is always hope, no matter how bad things may be, how bleak the immediate future looks. Trek should never shy away from tough issues and things that might cause controversy because the PTB want to 'play it safe', especially after they mediocrity that was VOY and ENT.

Have darker, grittier episodes, story arcs, character development, but I'm not sure an entire series would work that way without becoming depressing.
QFT.
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Old April 16 2012, 07:18 PM   #18
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Apparently, Star Trek and other sci-fi shows appealed to a wide range of people, not just one specific group.
Not all hippies were peaceful either. Still, you can't let the actions of a few cause the condemnation of an entire group.
Charles Manson was crazy and a bad example to everyone.
We seem to be going off topic here but i do believe a darker themed Star Trek series will work with today's audience.
Trek doesn't need to be darker. If anything, it needs to be more fun these days. Darker themes can be explored in various stories, but it need not be a new premise or basis.
i don't think a light themed star trek series will sell in our current times. i loved VOY and VOY is still my favourite star trek series ever. but i don't think it could have been made nowdays. But if a light themed star trek series works, excellent then !

Since you want a more fun star trek, what do you suggest then a "Gilmore Girls" in space ? or perhaps a "Friends" on a space station where they all sit around and have klingon coffee in a bar called "Space Perk"
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Old April 16 2012, 07:42 PM   #19
C.E. Evans
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

EmoBorg wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post

We seem to be going off topic here but i do believe a darker themed Star Trek series will work with today's audience.
Trek doesn't need to be darker. If anything, it needs to be more fun these days. Darker themes can be explored in various stories, but it need not be a new premise or basis.
i don't think a light themed star trek series will sell in our current times.
On the contrary, I think we need a lighter Trek series now more than ever. Or at the very least, one that doesn't make us so depressed we want to slit our wrists.
Since you want a more fun star trek, what do you suggest then a "Gilmore Girls" in space ? or perhaps a "Friends" on a space station where they all sit around and have klingon coffee in a bar called "Space Perk"
I prefer Star Trek, not whatever you're proposing.
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Old April 16 2012, 08:04 PM   #20
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Trek doesn't need to be darker. If anything, it needs to be more fun these days. Darker themes can be explored in various stories, but it need not be a new premise or basis.
i don't think a light themed star trek series will sell in our current times.
On the contrary, I think we need a lighter Trek series now more than ever. Or at the very least, one that doesn't make us so depressed we want to slit our wrists.
Since you want a more fun star trek, what do you suggest then a "Gilmore Girls" in space ? or perhaps a "Friends" on a space station where they all sit around and have klingon coffee in a bar called "Space Perk"
I prefer Star Trek, not whatever you're proposing.
i don't think a light themed sci fi show will sell. We need a darker themed sci fi show where there is conflict among the crew like when crewman A slept with crewman B's wife. or crewman C is a druggie or crewman D killed a man and is haunted by his past. We need a conflicted Captain who perhaps left his wife because she slept around alot. A first Offiicer who is secretly a section 31 agent and is tasked to do dubious things for that group.
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Old April 16 2012, 08:07 PM   #21
C.E. Evans
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

EmoBorg wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post

i don't think a light themed star trek series will sell in our current times.
On the contrary, I think we need a lighter Trek series now more than ever. Or at the very least, one that doesn't make us so depressed we want to slit our wrists.
Since you want a more fun star trek, what do you suggest then a "Gilmore Girls" in space ? or perhaps a "Friends" on a space station where they all sit around and have klingon coffee in a bar called "Space Perk"
I prefer Star Trek, not whatever you're proposing.
i don't think a light themed sci fi show will sell. We need a darker themed sci fi show where there is conflict among the crew like when crewman A slept with crewman B's wife. or crewman C is a druggie or crewman D killed a man and is haunted by his past. We need a conflicted Captain who perhaps left his wife because she slept around alot. A first Offiicer who is secretly a section 31 agent and is tasked to do dubious things for that group.
Sorry, but I think that's one of the worst ideas for a Trek series I've ever heard and I don't think it would ever sell.
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Old April 16 2012, 08:13 PM   #22
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Well, here's the problem with your thesis: BSG hasn't been a huge ratings success and now SyFy seems to be dropping it as a franchise in favor of shows that are more in their USA-lite style.

I wouldn't use BSG as the template for Star Trek's future success. Instead, Game of Thrones and The Walking Dead are better inspirations, since those are two of the biggest ratings successes on TV right now, and even though they aren't space-based, they have managed to convince millions of viewers who aren't necessarily genre fans to accept a fantastical premise, and also that sf/f is not incompatible with quality drama for grownups.

The lesson that those two teach is that Star Trek shouldn't be afraid of complex storylines and characterizations, byzantine politics, adult themes, and mega-violence. In fact, those are the elements that will help it thrive on cable, which is the only place it can thrive anymore.

The Walking Dead in particular demonstrates that the lead characters do not need to be dark or immoral people. If the plotline puts some kind of extreme pressure on them, they might do sketchy things, or at least talk about doing them. But they need to be free to make moral choices, to pull back from the brink if that makes sense for the story.

I'd stay away from homosexuality as a topic unless it's cast as a metaphor. Homosexuality in the Federation should be no big deal and therefore can't be the basis of a dramatic conflict. I don't know why the Klingons would get bent out of shape about a gay Klingon, either. As long as he/she is honorable and blahblahblah, it's all good, right?

As for zombies, that's the Borg. No need for other space zombies, just dust those guys off and treat them with respect this time.

I agree with C.E. Evans, the 60s were plenty dark. Political assassinations, cities exploding in race riots, lots of bad shit happening.

The dark/light thing on TV is more a product of how TV is splitting up. You still get the lighter stuff on broadcast - Grimm and Once Upon a Time - and cable skews way darker - GoT, TWD. SyFy is falling on the more broadcasty end of the cable spectrum, along with USA and TNT. On the other end is FX, AMC and the premium cable channels. Don't worry about whether the world is dark or light; look at the individual channel and what kind of audience they're catering to.

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Old April 16 2012, 09:11 PM   #23
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Well...how about a series about war between the mirror universe and the normal universe. Told from the mirror universe POV. I think you couldnt get much darker for a trek series as a whole. Not sure if that would sell of course. Or how about this:

A trek series taking place on two entirely different ships. One ship out exploring, while the other ship is a secret ship working for section 31....for the dark stuff. The actions of both ships influence each other...although they rarely interact directly. Switch between the ships per episode. That way you could have a trek thats darker AND lighter at the same time. And instead of using big season arcs the show should use mini arcs of three or four episodes.

Dont know if that would sell either. Well..,a way to satisfy boths camps of lighter and darker would have to be found.
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Old April 16 2012, 09:13 PM   #24
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
On the contrary, I think we need a lighter Trek series now more than ever. Or at the very least, one that doesn't make us so depressed we want to slit our wrists.
I prefer Star Trek, not whatever you're proposing.
i don't think a light themed sci fi show will sell. We need a darker themed sci fi show where there is conflict among the crew like when crewman A slept with crewman B's wife. or crewman C is a druggie or crewman D killed a man and is haunted by his past. We need a conflicted Captain who perhaps left his wife because she slept around alot. A first Offiicer who is secretly a section 31 agent and is tasked to do dubious things for that group.
Sorry, but I think that's one of the worst ideas for a Trek series I've ever heard and I don't think it would ever sell.
i was just giving examples of conflicted characters on a starship. i was not trying to sell anything. We don't need to follow all my examples and put them on one ship in space.
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Old April 16 2012, 09:17 PM   #25
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

The Mirror Universe is alright for a bit of a jaunt to see how characters we know and love might have been under different circumstances (and only really works if they are well established to begin with). Not sure a series spent jumping from one to the other would work, plus it could get a little confusing from time to time (not to mention its a bit of a rip off of Fringe ).

As for Section 31, I think that they should just be left alone. From what's been seen to date, its not a large organisation and very few people know of it. Also if its looked at in more depth, it'll lose some of the mystery that makes it an interesting concept.
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Old April 16 2012, 09:21 PM   #26
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

FreddyE wrote: View Post
Well...how about a series about war between the mirror universe and the normal universe. Told from the mirror universe POV. I think you couldnt get much darker for a trek series as a whole. Not sure if that would sell of course. Or how about this:

A trek series taking place on two entirely different ships. One ship out exploring, while the other ship is a secret ship working for section 31....for the dark stuff. The actions of both ships influence each other...although they rarely interact directly. Switch between the ships per episode. That way you could have a trek thats darker AND lighter at the same time. And instead of using big season arcs the show should use mini arcs of three or four episodes.

Dont know if that would sell either. Well..,a way to satisfy boths camps of lighter and darker would have to be found.
Interesting, sounds like the fringe tv series.
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Old April 16 2012, 09:28 PM   #27
Bry_Sinclair
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

EmoBorg wrote: View Post
i was just giving examples of conflicted characters on a starship. i was not trying to sell anything. We don't need to follow all my examples and put them on one ship in space.
Here are just some random ideas for 'conflicted' characters:

The Trill Captain is a woman who lived through eight months in a Cardassian POW camp during the war. She saw a lot of her crew killed in front of her, was constantly tortured and abused by the Cardassian warden until breaking point. Though receiving counselling, there are some things she just won't talk about.

The Human XO who was advanced rapidly up the ranks (some believe too quickly), he now finds himself in his first Command position and must now discover what he's truely made of.

A Romulan Science Officer, after being abandoned by her people she turned to the UFP and has faced suspicion and discrimination since her first days at the Academy.

A temporally displaced human man from the 22nd century serves as Chief Engineer. Lost in time in the midst of the war, he is still playing catch up but wants to make himself useful--so he can't dwell on all that he has lost to the past.

The ship's Andorian Counsellor must help the crew overcome their own trauma and pain from the war, whilst also coming to terms with the loss of his bondmates and offspring.

Conflicted doesn't have to mean issues between different characters, it can also be an individuals own personal journey that the audience gets emotionally invested in.
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Old April 16 2012, 10:18 PM   #28
C.E. Evans
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Bry_Sinclair wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post
i was just giving examples of conflicted characters on a starship. i was not trying to sell anything. We don't need to follow all my examples and put them on one ship in space.
Here are just some random ideas for 'conflicted' characters:

The Trill Captain is a woman who lived through eight months in a Cardassian POW camp during the war. She saw a lot of her crew killed in front of her, was constantly tortured and abused by the Cardassian warden until breaking point. Though receiving counselling, there are some things she just won't talk about.

The Human XO who was advanced rapidly up the ranks (some believe too quickly), he now finds himself in his first Command position and must now discover what he's truely made of.

A Romulan Science Officer, after being abandoned by her people she turned to the UFP and has faced suspicion and discrimination since her first days at the Academy.

A temporally displaced human man from the 22nd century serves as Chief Engineer. Lost in time in the midst of the war, he is still playing catch up but wants to make himself useful--so he can't dwell on all that he has lost to the past.

The ship's Andorian Counsellor must help the crew overcome their own trauma and pain from the war, whilst also coming to terms with the loss of his bondmates and offspring.

Conflicted doesn't have to mean issues between different characters, it can also be an individuals own personal journey that the audience gets emotionally invested in.
Yeah, I like those ideas.
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Old April 16 2012, 10:44 PM   #29
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

BSG actually wasn't successful ratings-wise. it was critically aclaimed, and therefore SyFy stuck with it, despite not getting the ratings they would've like, for the prestige. The current "Lighter" crop of shows SyFy airs now, get better ratings then BSG did, and since TNG still does good ratings in reruns, another series in that light tone on SyFy actually might be quite successful. BSG was definitely very good, but, for me, sometimes it was tough to watch, because it was so weighed down with dreariness, a Trek show, certainly shouldn't be that heavy overall, it should only use darker elements sparingly, when they have something to really say in the story with it.

I actually agree that, yes, a new Trek with darker elements or episodes or arcs, could be very good, but, as stated, it shouldn't be BSG depressing where you want to slit your wrists. It's totally possible to explore darker elements without weighing the show down as a whole with dreariness. DS9 went to some very dark places, but, it only dipped into that darkness, it didn't wallow in it for 7 straight seasons.

But, as Temis says, it all depends on who carries it as to what will work. Most importantly is character development and consistency, don't have characters flip flop back and forth each week at the speed of plot, if a character changes (which they should change and grow), there should be real, plot/arc related reasons, it shouldn't just be random due to "shoving the characters into the story you want to tell this week". You should grow the characters to fit your story and you should write the story grow your characters.
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Old April 16 2012, 11:20 PM   #30
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Re: Exploring a darker theme in a future star trek series

Enterprise was just too sanitised in its early episodes. It felt more like TNG and failed to capture the pioneer spirit of the original seties. I agree that nuBSG was too dark overall for ongoing Trek but I also agree that featuring some dark story arcs in Trek is a good thing.

I aimed a bit darker for my youtube comic set just after the motion picture but largely because I wanted to rip off other franchises and write some amalgam stories. The big inspirations so far have been Alien and Babylon 5 but there are a few more I can molest before I'm done and zombies are definitely on the list!
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