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Old April 12 2012, 09:18 PM   #16
LtChange
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

EmoBorg wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post
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It will work. We could recreate altogether a new background.
No, it won't. If you make it like Star Trek, you lose what makes nuBSG good. The two shows are incompatible in tone, theme and philosophy. Just playing continuity games in order to sling around character names and use cool spaceships from BSG doesn't make it worthwhile.
BSG the original series and the reimagined series were quite different.

The original series cylons were another rival race while the reimagined cylons are human clones and human created cyborgs.

The original series had a lighter tone compared to the reimagined series and did not have the strong religious ovetones of the later series.

The older series used lasers effects for weapons fire while the newer series used missile, shells & rounds (i call bullets rounds as that want we are trained to call them in the military which i had served in before).

The older series had a much larger convoy of over 200 ships while the new series had perhaps less than 100 ships following Galactica.

If the old series and new series can differ so much, I am sure changes can be made to the reimagined BSG to "fit" Star Trek.

I am only offering solutions to help restart star trek on TV. BSG was perhaps the last true sci fi show we had. So If we could find ways to adapt the reimagined BSG series past to a Star Trek series future, then we could have a winning formula to keeping the Star Trek franchise alive on TV.

We don't need to copy the BSG series. We could create a scenerio where humans evolved on other planets and some of their descendents settled on earth and mixed with earth humans but the other planet evolved humans had other descendants who hate us for some religious reason. And since the new enemy only seems to hate humans and is quite powerful, The united federation of planets collapses as planets leave the federation to avoid facing the new enemy and only a few aillies remain like perhaps the vulcans.

StarGate had a similar angle with the Ori and Ancients races thst seperated due to religious differences. The Ancients created Earth Humans then get into a conflict with the Ori.
But tell me what is the point? I really really think there will be more upset fans than happy ones with a move like this. Right now we are talking about nuBSG ... So to make nuBSG fans happy, you should BSGlize Star Trek with a more complex story, usually not for a broad audiance, and make it more depressing, more real. If you want to make Star Trek fans happy on the other hand you should cheer up the BSG part of your idea. There is little common ground between the two series, except for the fact that they are both space ship based TV series. In my point of view your suggestion is something like suggesting to bring together Buffy the Vampire Slayer with True Blood, they are both about vampires or maybe you should mix together Love Boat with seaQuest DSV as they both happen on the ocean ... I really really do think that we are talking about two so different universes that they are incompatible in their nature. Maybe both of them are fan favorites, and 80% of the two TV series fan base is mostly the same, but that doesn't mean that the two would work as one. What we need is a capable show runner with a great idea that could bring the universees of BSG or Star Trek to the masses not just for the niche audience, and mixing the two together would not make them popular to the masses, most probably genre fans would hate the too ... I would that is for sure.
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Old April 13 2012, 06:18 AM   #17
EmoBorg
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

LtChange wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post
My Name Is Legion wrote: View Post

No, it won't. If you make it like Star Trek, you lose what makes nuBSG good. The two shows are incompatible in tone, theme and philosophy. Just playing continuity games in order to sling around character names and use cool spaceships from BSG doesn't make it worthwhile.
BSG the original series and the reimagined series were quite different.

The original series cylons were another rival race while the reimagined cylons are human clones and human created cyborgs.

The original series had a lighter tone compared to the reimagined series and did not have the strong religious ovetones of the later series.

The older series used lasers effects for weapons fire while the newer series used missile, shells & rounds (i call bullets rounds as that want we are trained to call them in the military which i had served in before).

The older series had a much larger convoy of over 200 ships while the new series had perhaps less than 100 ships following Galactica.

If the old series and new series can differ so much, I am sure changes can be made to the reimagined BSG to "fit" Star Trek.

I am only offering solutions to help restart star trek on TV. BSG was perhaps the last true sci fi show we had. So If we could find ways to adapt the reimagined BSG series past to a Star Trek series future, then we could have a winning formula to keeping the Star Trek franchise alive on TV.

We don't need to copy the BSG series. We could create a scenerio where humans evolved on other planets and some of their descendents settled on earth and mixed with earth humans but the other planet evolved humans had other descendants who hate us for some religious reason. And since the new enemy only seems to hate humans and is quite powerful, The united federation of planets collapses as planets leave the federation to avoid facing the new enemy and only a few aillies remain like perhaps the vulcans.

StarGate had a similar angle with the Ori and Ancients races thst seperated due to religious differences. The Ancients created Earth Humans then get into a conflict with the Ori.
But tell me what is the point? I really really think there will be more upset fans than happy ones with a move like this. Right now we are talking about nuBSG ... So to make nuBSG fans happy, you should BSGlize Star Trek with a more complex story, usually not for a broad audiance, and make it more depressing, more real. If you want to make Star Trek fans happy on the other hand you should cheer up the BSG part of your idea. There is little common ground between the two series, except for the fact that they are both space ship based TV series. In my point of view your suggestion is something like suggesting to bring together Buffy the Vampire Slayer with True Blood, they are both about vampires or maybe you should mix together Love Boat with seaQuest DSV as they both happen on the ocean ... I really really do think that we are talking about two so different universes that they are incompatible in their nature. Maybe both of them are fan favorites, and 80% of the two TV series fan base is mostly the same, but that doesn't mean that the two would work as one. What we need is a capable show runner with a great idea that could bring the universees of BSG or Star Trek to the masses not just for the niche audience, and mixing the two together would not make them popular to the masses, most probably genre fans would hate the too ... I would that is for sure.
Maybe the star trek franchise do need a little darkness in its theme. I came to star trek through voyager and voyager was perhaps the most light hearted show among the various live action star trek series. But from what i have seen among star trek fans, DS9 was perhaps more popular and it had more of a darker tone to it's theme.

If Star trek fans want to see another long running star trek show on tv, perhaps we should adopt the darker toned approach of BSG.
The idealism of the earlier star trek series need to give way to a more darker approach.
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Last edited by EmoBorg; April 13 2012 at 06:31 AM.
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Old April 13 2012, 08:29 PM   #18
Temis the Vorta
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

How dark it might get would be determined by where it ends up. On Showtime, pretty dark. On FX, dark and very violent. On AMC, dark and arty and violent. On TNT, lighter and less violent, not much worse than you'd see on broadcast. SyFy - nah, they don't do space stuff.

Every channel has its audience to appeal to, and they will expect any new show to generally fit in with their existing tone.
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Old April 13 2012, 09:21 PM   #19
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

Dark not necessary better. Even though I agree that DS9 was darker and it is fan favorite, but rating wise this wasn't reflected as it should have, as DS9 could never enter in TNG's footsteps. What would help in my opinion, and what is successful right now are standalone episodes/arcs, with an ever growing mistery in the background. Just watch the current successful scripted shows: LOST was a hit, right now Person of Interest, Once Upon a Time, Game of Thrones, Spartacus nearly all of them are presented episodically as stand alone stories, yet all of them has a bigger scope in the background, mostly some unfolding mystery also heavy character development. In my opinion that is what Star Trek should too in a future TV series if they want to be successful, not the dark tone is the important but the composition of the seasons/stories to server not only the episode but the bigger scope too. nuBSG was dark in tone, but it also had all the above.
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Old April 13 2012, 10:38 PM   #20
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

What about StarGate SG:1 and its spinoffs?

Most of the StarGate SG:1 universe happened within our present day one was simply kept secret.

And the backstory for the StarGate system would account for why so many human appearing races are located around the galaxy.
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Old April 14 2012, 07:37 AM   #21
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

LtChange wrote: View Post
Dark not necessary better. Even though I agree that DS9 was darker and it is fan favorite, but rating wise this wasn't reflected as it should have, as DS9 could never enter in TNG's footsteps. What would help in my opinion, and what is successful right now are standalone episodes/arcs, with an ever growing mistery in the background. Just watch the current successful scripted shows: LOST was a hit, right now Person of Interest, Once Upon a Time, Game of Thrones, Spartacus nearly all of them are presented episodically as stand alone stories, yet all of them has a bigger scope in the background, mostly some unfolding mystery also heavy character development. In my opinion that is what Star Trek should too in a future TV series if they want to be successful, not the dark tone is the important but the composition of the seasons/stories to server not only the episode but the bigger scope too. nuBSG was dark in tone, but it also had all the above.
LOST was not a stand alone episode type of series. You had to follow the whole season in order to understand the storyline. Game of Thrones & Spartacus are also not stand alone episode oriented series. you had to follow the whole season to better appreciate the story line plus Game of Thrones & Spartacus had plenty of violence and nudity to attract more people as well. Person of Interest show that stars that actor who played jesus , does have stand alone episodes but it is more of a cop drama. i never watched Once Upon a Time and hence i cannot comment on that show.

The Walking Dead was really dark and i really liked it.

Star trek was born in the idealism of 1960s. The era we live in now is a post 9/11 world, where the USA even waterboarded enemies for information under george w bush. We need a show that reflects our current times. A darker and conflicted star trek series, where the federation idealism gives way to pragmatic realism. The federation becomes more darker as a result.
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Last edited by EmoBorg; April 14 2012 at 01:03 PM.
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Old April 14 2012, 10:09 AM   #22
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

I think I love Star Trek the most when it is at its darkest but I would never want it to be as dark as BSG. B5 had some dark moments too and that is probably more like what I'd prefer.

Soap opera shows have to be careful though. If the ongoing plot is too convoluted, it's too hard for new viewers to come in and pick up the story and casual viewers will drop out, leading to declining numbers. B5's narrative was screwed up because they could not be sure they were going to get a 5th season. Flash Forward was cancelled after one season, so was Odyssey 5, Defying Gravity, etc, all of which had some unreaslised potential and I'm sure there are others. Lost was very lucky that it was able to maintain its momentum.

Joss Whedon seems to be good at maintaining the right balance of stand alone and ongoing. Firefly suffered an early death because the producers hated the show rather than anything that Whedon did wrong. Its numbers were better than Buffy's were during its first season but they didn't have enough faith in the premise.

Deep Space 9 definitely hit a reasonable balance between stand alone and ongoing. However, I think even stand alone should always have one scene in that relates to the ongoing plot. I used to feel a bit cheated if B5 did completely stand alone episodes.
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Old April 14 2012, 06:09 PM   #23
Temis the Vorta
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

Dark not necessary better.
True, but on most of the channels where Star Trek could survive, shows are expected to be darker than on broadcast, where it can't survive.

So when Star Trek returns to TV, it will most likely be darker, and definitely better, than what we're used to (because cable is also better than broadcast) even if the darkness isn't what's making it better. Causation, not causality.

And I certainly don't expect Deadwood in Space. It won't be that dark, that would be nuts.

Your ideas about the episodes being at least semi-serialized is very likely to turn out to be true, since cable skews more towards serialized drama. Like EmoBorg said, the examples you gave are very serialized (including Once Upon a Time) while Person of Interest is more a traditional CBS cop show and doesn't have any significant genre content. For a new Star Trek series to have any episodic qualities would be bucking the cable trends, but I think being less serialized than normal for cable would be right for it.

If the ongoing plot is too convoluted, it's too hard for new viewers to come in and pick up the story and casual viewers will drop out, leading to declining numbers.
That's a broadcast problem, and Star Trek can't survive on broadcast, so it won't be Star Trek's problem. On cable, heavily serialized shows have no trouble hanging onto viewers (as long as they're good; sucky shows anywhere will lose viewers)

USA has some episodic-skewing shows, but they don't do sci fi. SyFy series also have some episodic qualities, but if they won't even continue BSG or Stargate, why would they do Star Trek? (And why would we want them to? Ugh.) I'm not so sure about TNT, since I only watch Falling Skies, which is heavily serialized. Other cable channels - AMC, FX, HBO, Showtime, Starz - are strongly into serialized drama.

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Old April 15 2012, 07:31 PM   #24
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

LtChange wrote: View Post
Dark not necessary better. Even though I agree that DS9 was darker and it is fan favorite, but rating wise this wasn't reflected as it should have, as DS9 could never enter in TNG's footsteps.
Agreed. One of the things that made Trek so appealing is that it depicted a future that wasn't so dark and dreary, in a time in which the real-world seemed to be headed that way.

And it's not like Trek doesn't deal with some dark subject matter--they usually encounter them on various worlds where they're presented as an allegory. It's just that such things are regarded as things our heroes have overcome rather than be slaves to.
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Old April 16 2012, 02:36 PM   #25
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
LtChange wrote: View Post
Dark not necessary better. Even though I agree that DS9 was darker and it is fan favorite, but rating wise this wasn't reflected as it should have, as DS9 could never enter in TNG's footsteps.
Agreed. One of the things that made Trek so appealing is that it depicted a future that wasn't so dark and dreary, in a time in which the real-world seemed to be headed that way.

And it's not like Trek doesn't deal with some dark subject matter--they usually encounter them on various worlds where they're presented as an allegory. It's just that such things are regarded as things our heroes have overcome rather than be slaves to.
The original Battlestar Galactica and the reimagined BSG were quite different in tone. The later series was far more darker than the earlier series. I am sure Star Trek can get the same treatment. I am also sure that Star Trek fans like yourself will watch a future star trek series even if it is dark because of the brand name.
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Old April 16 2012, 03:13 PM   #26
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

EmoBorg wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
LtChange wrote: View Post
Dark not necessary better. Even though I agree that DS9 was darker and it is fan favorite, but rating wise this wasn't reflected as it should have, as DS9 could never enter in TNG's footsteps.
Agreed. One of the things that made Trek so appealing is that it depicted a future that wasn't so dark and dreary, in a time in which the real-world seemed to be headed that way.

And it's not like Trek doesn't deal with some dark subject matter--they usually encounter them on various worlds where they're presented as an allegory. It's just that such things are regarded as things our heroes have overcome rather than be slaves to.
The original Battlestar Galactica and the reimagined BSG were quite different in tone. The later series was far more darker than the earlier series. I am sure Star Trek can get the same treatment. I am also sure that Star Trek fans like yourself will watch a future star trek series even if it is dark because of the brand name.
Actually, I wouldn't because I got real sick of nuBSG fairly quickly. Most of the characters started to irritate me and I began wishing they'd all just wipe each other out so the show can be over with. After I realized I was wishing that, I stopped watching.

I'd do the same thing to a Trek series if they went that route.

Trek itself doesn't need to be darker in the sense of the crew being jerks to each other or coming from a devastated society on the verge of collapse as was the case in nuBSG. Those very same things can be done when the crew encounters other civilizations like that.

That doesn't mean that there can't be a couple of characters that have an ongoing love-hate relationship with one another the way Spock and McCoy or Odo and Quark did, however. Trek can still do heavier material without turning it completely into Doomsday Trek or Asshole Trek.
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Old April 16 2012, 04:32 PM   #27
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

Actually darker themed programming is quite normal nowdays. BSG may have lost some viewership but it was strong enough to last 4 seasons.
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Old April 16 2012, 04:55 PM   #28
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

EmoBorg wrote: View Post
Actually darker themed programming is quite normal nowdays.
It's been that way from the beginning. The only difference is that we get to actually see and hear things that were only implied earlier due to more conservative network censors.
BSG may have lost some viewership but it was strong enough to last 4 seasons.
Baywatch lasted 11 seasons. And all that really means is that not everyone likes darker themed stuff. Presumably, an ideal sci-fi adventure series should have a little bit of everything--moments of both light and dark, humor and tragedy, hope and cynicism...
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Old April 16 2012, 05:48 PM   #29
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post
Actually darker themed programming is quite normal nowdays.
It's been that way from the beginning. The only difference is that we get to actually see and hear things that were only implied earlier due to more conservative network censors.
BSG may have lost some viewership but it was strong enough to last 4 seasons.
Baywatch lasted 11 seasons. And all that really means is that not everyone likes darker themed stuff. Presumably, an ideal sci-fi adventure series should have a little bit of everything--moments of both light and dark, humor and tragedy, hope and cynicism...
Baywatch lasted that long because it had women running around in red swimsuits. i certainly don't want to use sex to sell star trek.

I want something that the current generation could relate to, not a utopian world where the federation is the good guys all the time. We need dark themes in star trek.
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Old April 16 2012, 06:15 PM   #30
C.E. Evans
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Re: A tie up bewteen Star Trek & Battlestar Galactica

EmoBorg wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
EmoBorg wrote: View Post
Actually darker themed programming is quite normal nowdays.
It's been that way from the beginning. The only difference is that we get to actually see and hear things that were only implied earlier due to more conservative network censors.
BSG may have lost some viewership but it was strong enough to last 4 seasons.
Baywatch lasted 11 seasons. And all that really means is that not everyone likes darker themed stuff. Presumably, an ideal sci-fi adventure series should have a little bit of everything--moments of both light and dark, humor and tragedy, hope and cynicism...
Baywatch lasted that long because it had women running around in red swimsuits.
Baywatch also lasted that long because it was simple escapism, and one that appealed to a wide audience.
i certainly don't want to use sex to sell star trek.
It definitely sold TOS (miniskirt uniforms, Kirk's torn shirts, alien babes in metal bikinis, etc). I don't think there's anything wrong with Trek being a little sexy, but there's been times when it's been handled badly in the more recent Trek shows.
I want something that the current generation could relate to, not a utopian world where the federation is the good guys all the time. We need dark themes in star trek.
Trek has had plenty of dark themes and there have been episodes in which the Federation wasn't always in the right. You don't need to turn Star Trek into nuBSG to tell those kinds of stories.
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