Ongoing Community Discussion Thread

[Snaploud]

Yeah, as much as I love Doctor Who...it would be great to see Community win for Remedial Chaos Theory.

[Professor Zoom]

I'd like to see Community win. It's a great Sci Fi episode. Better than Doctor's Wife--which is pretty fantastic, but... Though The Girl Who Waited... very awesome.

[Sci]

I don't know if I really think it ought to qualify for the Hugo. I don't think we were actually seeing alternate timelines -- we were seeing Abed's musings about what those alternate timelines might be like.

[Admiral_Young]

^ Yet the alternative timelines were used in a science fiction type setting Sci. I know you believe that Abed was imagining them, but if it was or not doesn't matter in this context. They were used in a science fiction setting and thus qualify IMO.

This is a tough one. Huge Who fan and I absolutely adored that episode, but also loved this episode as well. I think I'd be fine if either episode won.

[Sci]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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^ Yet the alternative timelines were used in a science fiction type setting Sci. I know you believe that Abed was imagining them, but if it was or not doesn't matter in this context. They were used in a science fiction setting and thus qualify IMO.

Well, by that logic, did The Big Bang Theory qualify when Leonard imagined Sheldon reproducing through mitosis? Or Scrubs qualify for a Hugo every time J.D. imagined himself in a sci-fi setting? Or The Wonder Years when Kevin imagined himself and his friends as the characters from "Spock's Brain?" Etc.

I just think it's a stretch. Mind you, if there were a reason to think "Remedial Chaos Theory" wasn't Abed's imagination, I'd agree that it qualifies.

But I have my own issues with the Hugos. (Nominating the entire first season of Game of Thrones in the Best Dramatic Presentation, Long Form category? Nonsense; it's not a single long dramatic presentation, it's a collection of short-form dramatic presentations. And awards acceptance speech skits should never be nominated alongside full episodes in the short-form category. But I digress. End rant.)

[Professor Zoom]

Sci;6148708

I just think it's a stretch. Mind you, [b wrote:

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if[/b] there were a reason to think "Remedial Chaos Theory" wasn't Abed's imagination, I'd agree that it qualifies.

I think there's every reason to think it IS alternative timelines, not Abed's imagination. Generally, when Abed imagines something, there's a tilt of his head, and he imagines, and then a cut to. Here, as I recall there was no such thing.

Why do you think it's Abed's imagination?

[shivkala]

[QUOTE=Sci;6148708]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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Well, by that logic, did The Big Bang Theory qualify when Leonard imagined Sheldon reproducing through mitosis? Or Scrubs qualify for a Hugo every time J.D. imagined himself in a sci-fi setting? Or The Wonder Years when Kevin imagined himself and his friends as the characters from "Spock's Brain?" Etc.

I'm not sure about The Wonder Years, as I was never into that series, but in the case of The Big Bang Theory example and J.D.'s imaginations on Scrubs, those were not the basis for full episodes (with the exception of Scrubs "My Princess," and that episode was, well, in a word, bad).

In the case of The Big Bang Theory, maybe if Leonard's imagined Sheldon reproducing through mitosis and spent the episode following them as they both reproduced again and eventually overwhelmed the Earth with Sheldons it would qualify.

What you're saying is equivalent to saying that Inception was not science fiction

if you believe that Cobb might have been dreaming the entire time.

[Sci]

shivkala wrote:

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I'm not sure about The Wonder Years, as I was never into that series, but in the case of The Big Bang Theory example and J.D.'s imaginations on Scrubs, those were not the basis for full episodes (with the exception of Scrubs "My Princess," and that episode was, well, in a word, bad).

In the case of The Big Bang Theory, maybe if Leonard's imagined Sheldon reproducing through mitosis and spent the episode following them as they both reproduced again and eventually overwhelmed the Earth with Sheldons it would qualify.

What you're saying is equivalent to saying that Inception was not science fiction

if you believe that Cobb might have been dreaming the entire time.

Well, no, because even if that were the case, it was all the result of the dream machine. Inception was obviously as much science fiction as Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind.

[Admiral_Young]

@Zoom Sci pointed out why he thinks Abed is imagining the timelines in another post, the point that made sense the most to me is that Abed imagined the Christmas claymation episode. I then furthered the thought that since he imagined the claymation due to having problems with not being at home for the holidays, he could be imagining this due to some problems he is going through. Perhaps between him and Troy, or him and the group, so he's internalizing whatever it is.

It could very well be alternative timelines considering it is "Community" but I do think Sci is on to something.

[Professor Zoom]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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@Zoom Sci pointed out why he thinks Abed is imagining the timelines in another post, the point that made sense the most to me is that Abed imagined the Christmas claymation episode. I then furthered the thought that since he imagined the claymation due to having problems with not being at home for the holidays, he could be imagining this due to some problems he is going through. Perhaps between him and Troy, or him and the group, so he's internalizing whatever it is.

However, IN the claymation episode it's made VERY clear that Abed is imagining this and the group is playing along. There is no such indication in the alternative timelines episode at all. Within the episode, what evidence is there that Abed is imagining it? Or where is Sci's post?

[Admiral_Young]

Page 51, post 755 I think. It is a reply to another poster's comments.

[Sci]

Professor Zoom wrote:

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However, IN the claymation episode it's made VERY clear that Abed is imagining this and the group is playing along. There is no such indication in the alternative timelines episode at all. Within the episode, what evidence is there that Abed is imagining it?

Well, there's the fact that it's Abed who introduces the concept, and who then ushers us back into the "regular" timeline. It's Abed who muses that the roll of the dice will create multiple timelines, and Abed who brings us back. It's also Dark Timeline Abed, in the credits sequence, who declares that his timeline is the "darkest" timeline and decides to start wearing an Evil Spock Goatee -- something not likely to happen if Dark Timeline Abed actually believed his timeline was the timeline; it sounds more to me like the depiction of Abed's imagined alternate self in his own mind than something any version of Abed would actually think.

And then, of course, a few weeks ago, Abed "encounters" the Dark Timeline Abed while in the Dreamatorium--and somehow Dark Timeline Abed just happens to have gotten ahold of a space ship and has been somehow monitoring events in the Prime Timeline? It's highly implausible.

So it all seems more likely to me that the alternate timelines were Abed's musings rather than "actual" alternate timelines.

[Admiral_Young]

Sci's reasoning on this is really sound to me, even given the fact that it is "Community" it still goes with the "meta-ness" of Abed. Like I said he seems to internalize all of his problems that he is going through. Right now he and Troy are going through problems, so i see no reason why this couldn't be the case, as much as I love the idea about alternate realities existing in "Community" Abed imagining them could be that "twist" they're weaving. So I give it a lot of credence even though I didn't think about it before Sci first suggested it

[Sci]

Admiral_Young wrote:

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Sci's reasoning on this is really sound to me, even given the fact that it is "Community" it still goes with the "meta-ness" of Abed. Like I said he seems to internalize all of his problems that he is going through. Right now he and Troy are going through problems, so i see no reason why this couldn't be the case, as much as I love the idea about alternate realities existing in "Community" Abed imagining them could be that "twist" they're weaving. So I give it a lot of credence even though I didn't think about it before Sci first suggested it

Thank you much.

I don't want to come across like I think mine is the only valid interpretation, or like thinking the alternate timelines actually exist is a completely terrible idea. It's not. But I just don't agree with it, personally.

[Snaploud]

I would just like to take a moment to point out the competition (in bold):

Best Dramatic Presentation, Short Form

“The Doctor’s Wife” (Doctor Who), written by Neil Gaiman; directed by Richard Clark (BBC Wales)
“The Drink Tank’s Hugo Acceptance Speech,” Christopher J Garcia and James Bacon (Renovation)
“The Girl Who Waited” (Doctor Who), written by Tom MacRae; directed by Nick Hurran (BBC Wales)
“A Good Man Goes to War” (Doctor Who), written by Steven Moffat; directed by Peter Hoar (BBC Wales)
“Remedial Chaos Theory” (Community), written by Dan Harmon and Chris McKenna; directed by Jeff Melman (NBC)