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Old April 6 2012, 12:01 PM   #61
Allyn Gibson
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Looks like Storm has made her decision early,
I've read that three times now, and I still have no idea why Storm leaves like that. "You said the word 'Phoenix,' so I'm outta here, bub!"
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Old April 6 2012, 02:39 PM   #62
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Looks like Storm has made her decision early, and Carol is the voice of reason in the room. Her assessment of Scott is correct. He isn't going to just let them extract Hope given all he has done to project her lol. I really can't stand Bendis right now. I'm not surprised he was named one of the writers given his status as an Architect and the fact that he has seeded how we have got to this point so far, but I'm becoming more and more annoyed with his work.
The problem wit Bendis are two-fold
-he lack an understanding of Marvel continuity, we have seen it multiple times (chaos magic, the back-story between Magneto and his kids, the Beyonder) and with something as continuity heavy as X-Men he butchers it as we see with his whole explanation of the Phoenix.
-his decompression has been taken to such a laughable extreme, AvsX isnt very far from what a parody of his decompression would read like

And secondly JRJR is probably the worst artist for this type of issue that places emphasis on conveying emotions and atmosphere. His strengths are more rooted in doing action scenes. It really just shows that Marvel rushed AvsX into production using JRJR in order to compete with DC since Perlmutter has been cutting corners all across Marvel's publishing side.

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Old April 6 2012, 09:05 PM   #63
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

i'd almost forgot about what Bendis did to the Beyonder.
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Old April 6 2012, 10:33 PM   #64
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

I thought the first issue was average. It was a contrived fight, with bad characterizations. Scott comes across as a complete psycho and I hope he isn't being set up as the villain on this story. Cap is acting like Maria Hill, who's belligerence started Civil War when she tried to arrest Cap for violating a law THAT HADN'T BEEN PASSED YET! Logan's treason is not appreciated. Despite Marvel's best efforts, Logan is an X-Man first. He is not part of the establishment but that's what they're trying to do here.

It does look like they are ignoring large parts of the Phoenix backstory. To tell you the truth, that's fine with me. The last time the Phoenix was interesting was the Dark Phoenix Saga. When I read those books, to me it's Jean who was the Phoenix. Not an exact copy. Though having the Phoenix randomly destroy a world is a retcon to. The only world we ever saw it destroy as after she had been corrupted by Mastermind.

As for the Avengers preview, Cap is continuing his streak of bad advice. In Avengers 24.1, he tells Vision to forget his past like he did. Uh, Cap...Vision's only been gone for maybe two years in Marvel time. Due of the sliding timeline, you spent the rest of the 20th century on ice. It's NOT the same thing.

I've never been a fan of Ororo and the Panther (Storm has never need a relationship to define her) but T'Challa should have told Cap to mind his own fucking business. Ororo is his wife and his queen. Of course he's going to go after her.

Carol Danvers should be the voice of reason. I'm sure the writers of Marvel have forgetten this but she spent months with the team after she lost her powers and her memories.
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Old April 7 2012, 12:24 AM   #65
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

@Allyn Storm left because she's on Scott's Extinction team, that was her decision during Schism. You really should read it and ReGenesis. She left because the Avengers were planning an assault on her home and to extract a person she has fought to protect. As I have mentioned before, this event deals with issues and plots that go back at least to when Bendis took over on Avengers and for the X-Men maybe back to Morrison's run since Schism and ReGenesis have touched on many creative runs. I would suggest reading those first because you won't really understand most of the stuff going on here.

Marvel hasn't done a good job of making this event reader friendly for those who aren't familiar with the two teams. They're doing a rudimentary job of explaining things in like one dialogue box when really a fan needs to go back and catch up themselves if they haven't been reading. Just my advice.
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Old April 7 2012, 12:58 AM   #66
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
@Allyn Storm left because she's on Scott's Extinction team, that was her decision during Schism. You really should read it and ReGenesis. She left because the Avengers were planning an assault on her home and to extract a person she has fought to protect.
I am actually aware of where she came down in Schism and ReGenesis. Like I've said, I have to write often about the X-Men at work. Not so much about the Avengers.

The problem with that scene, however, is that Storm leaves before Captain America says what his plan in. He just mentions Phoenix, and she storms out. (Pun unintended.) After she's gone, then Captain America says that the Avengers are going to extract Hope from Utopia. (The pages don't quite work in the CBR preview. Storm is reacting on page 2 to what Cap says on page 3 with the way the two-page spread works.) So we have Cap saying, "Who here knows what the Phoenix is?" and then Storm buggers off.

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
As I have mentioned before, this event deals with issues and plots that go back at least to when Bendis took over on Avengers and for the X-Men maybe back to Morrison's run since Schism and ReGenesis have touched on many creative runs. I would suggest reading those first because you won't really understand most of the stuff going on here.
I appreciate the advice, I really do. But I'm only planning on picking up AVX and AVX Versus. In a sane world, that should be sufficient.

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
Marvel hasn't done a good job of making this event reader friendly for those who aren't familiar with the two teams. They're doing a rudimentary job of explaining things in like one dialogue box when really a fan needs to go back and catch up themselves if they haven't been reading. Just my advice.
One thing that would help, that comics have gotten away from, are the text boxes that refer readers back to old issues. "Captain America is talking about what happened in Pet Avengers #4!" That sort of thing. Comic books used to be hypertext-ish, in a way. They're not anymore.
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Old April 7 2012, 01:41 AM   #67
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

My apologizes again. I keep forgetting which you aren't familiar with...but my advice still stands for those who haven't been reading. This very much is a culmination of years worth of story lines and issues between characters and teams. Yes the editorial reminder boxes would be helpful in event books, Amazing Spider-Man still has them, don't recall if they are doing them in other books still.

I'm also planning up picking up AVX and the fight book...until the latter becomes boring. LOL. I also see your point about Storm's reaction. I'm assuming she is returning to Utopia after hearing about the attack and her reaction of "Goddess" doesn't help matters either. That's another thing about Bendis' reaction. Plus you have Peter there with a goofy look on his face!! Ughh Bendis. I'm really tempted on skipping his arc and waiting for the next writer. I'll be buying this on trade anyway.
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Old April 7 2012, 01:58 AM   #68
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

One thing that would help, that comics have gotten away from, are the text boxes that refer readers back to old issues. "Captain America is talking about what happened in Pet Avengers #4!" That sort of thing. Comic books used to be hypertext-ish, in a way. They're not anymore.
I seriously miss the captions. They explain things better and encourage you to buy and read old issues! What's wrong with that? At what point did they do away with that? Like 2004?
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Old April 7 2012, 04:49 AM   #69
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Okay.. so this is the new flagship story arc of Marvel right now, yes? So could someone tell me why the artwork was so freakishly horrible on AvX #1??
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Old April 7 2012, 04:52 PM   #70
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

It was a rush job. JRJR is the fastest artist Marvel has so they had him draw it so they could have it out early.
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Old April 7 2012, 04:57 PM   #71
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Axel Alonso talks about the choice of JRJR at Comic Book Resources:
CBR: One of the standouts for me looking at #1 was just looking at John Romita, Jr.'s art. When it came to balancing art duties on the series, why did you move towards John as the kickoff?

Alonso: The fact that John is Marvel royalty certainly had something to do with [him getting job]. Truth be told, we were lucky that it fit into his schedule. Had that not been the case, either Olivier Coipel or Adam Kubert could easily have been the artist to open "AvX."
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Old April 7 2012, 05:02 PM   #72
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

He doesn't mention the problem that he is under intense pressure by his bosses to boost comic book sales while keeping costs lay. The last round of layoffs there in the bullpen hasn't helped in that regards.

If they had used Coipel or Adam Kubert for the first few, there would have been schedule problems for their later issues.
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Old April 7 2012, 07:57 PM   #73
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
He doesn't mention the problem that he is under intense pressure by his bosses to boost comic book sales while keeping costs [low]. The last round of layoffs there in the bullpen hasn't helped in that regards.
Very true. And it's not the Mouse that's driving that, it's Isaac Perlmutter. That article also mentions some of the things that Marvel does that sabotage their own financial success.

Hound of UIster wrote: View Post
If they had used Coipel or Adam Kubert for the first few, there would have been schedule problems for their later issues.
Good point.
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Old April 7 2012, 08:07 PM   #74
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

^ I have to agree as well. I have absolutely loved JrJr's on "Kick-Ass 2" (it fits the tone of the story IMO and was even better than his work on the first volume) but have disliked his Marvel U work for awhile now for some reason I can't explain lol. I'm really looking forward to Copiel and Kubert's work on this.

EDIT: Oh wait...we're talking about scheduling issues lol. Bad job on me.
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Old April 7 2012, 08:23 PM   #75
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Re: Avengers Vs. X-Men -- Speculation, Spoilers, and Discussion

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
^ I have to agree as well. I have absolutely loved JrJr's on "Kick-Ass 2" (it fits the tone of the story IMO and was even better than his work on the first volume) but have disliked his Marvel U work for awhile now for some reason I can't explain lol. I'm really looking forward to Copiel and Kubert's work on this.

EDIT: Oh wait...we're talking about scheduling issues lol. Bad job on me.
Yeah, having Coipel or Adam Kubert drawing AVX at the start would have lead to a Final Crisis-like shipping schedule.
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