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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old April 1 2012, 04:55 PM   #1171
DonIago
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I think the joke is rather dated, myself.
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Old April 1 2012, 05:16 PM   #1172
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Sadly, Kira's role in the story isn't as good, she drives the vehicle while listening to the radio, with the volume so loud she can't hear Odo's screams. I know that some people love it, but I think the scene where she sings along to Girls Just Want to Have Fun was gratuitous and not all that funny.
Why did you put that image in my head? WHY!?
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Old April 3 2012, 05:19 PM   #1173
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Crossfire (***½)

For all the joking about how terrible the ending of Mass Effect 3 was and how it left me so depressed that I couldn't find the energy to get back to this thread, there was another thing preventing me from wanting to return to DS9; the knowledge that this episode was next. Many guys on this site have expressed some sort of connection to Odo in this episode because of going through similar events in their own lives, and I'm one of them. Me? I once found myself in a situation where my best friend used to frequently ask em for advice about her new relationship, oblivious to my own feelings for her, and it put me in a situation where I had to choose between giving her the best advice I could, or giving her the advice I wanted her to hear. I'll leave you to decide whether I paragonned or renegaded my way through that minefield. So yeah, I see a lot of myself in Odo in this episode.

I've never been subjected to physical torture so I'm not much of an expert on it, but I once believed that unrequited love is the most powerful torture that can be inflicted upon someone. Then I saw Sayid do the nail trick on Lost and came to the conclusion that they're about even. Anyway, watching Odo go through such an experience made for some good drama, and René did a good job with it. Sometimes it's a little overboard in execution, and I suppose that this is DS9 at its most soap-operaesque, but it's a nice retelling of an age-old story. I really enjoyed the Odo material.

The problem is the blossoming relationship between Kira and Shakaar. Kira's a main character on this show, so it's weird that the sole purpose of her entering a relationship with another character is to see Odo's reaction to it. It feels somewhat disrespectful to the character, the relationship doesn't develop naturally and Kira feels a little off in this episode because of it. This episode also does a disservice to Shakaar, not that he was much of a character to begin with, but his main purpose in the episode isn't the negotiations with the Federation or the threats upon him by Cardassian terrorists, he's here to get into Kira's pants. Shakaar could have been anybody.

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Old April 3 2012, 07:31 PM   #1174
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

The biggest flaw with the episode is Shakaar is boring as dirt in this episode. That pairing with Kira was just bad and boring. I almost feel like Kira would be tagged with someone even more of an aggressive fighter than her. I'm not sure who that would be though, since the only characters with that kind of personality tended to be villains.
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Old April 3 2012, 08:29 PM   #1175
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Yeah, and anyone with a bit of sense knows that the Kira/Dukat pairing is SQUICK on every possible level.
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Old April 3 2012, 10:36 PM   #1176
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Just finished watching Our Man Bashir. It is so cool and cliched, plus Sisko makes one bad ass villain! I think Moog Island from Moorcheeba sums up this episode quite nicely:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-R6tnC7dx8
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Old April 3 2012, 11:07 PM   #1177
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
Crossfire (***½)

This episode also does a disservice to Shakaar, not that he was much of a character to begin with, but his main purpose in the episode isn't the negotiations with the Federation or the threats upon him by Cardassian terrorists, he's here to get into Kira's pants.
So, wait, you're saying the character's only purpose for being in the episode was to "get with" Kira, and somehow that's a dis-service to him? I figured characters would be lining up to be disrespected by Kira in this manner
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Old April 4 2012, 09:31 AM   #1178
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

It's sort of like nesting dolls, isn't it? Shakaar's character is watered down so his purpose is to fit inside Kira's character package, while Kira herself is watered down (in this episode) to fit inside Odo's. Shakaar's role is to be Kira's Boyfriend, and Kira's to be Odo's Not Girlfriend. While I love Odo episodes, it's a shame that Kira had to be temporarily diluted (and poor Shakaar never recovered). It was a bit too Odo-centric, not just in terms of focus but in how other characters were presented. Although maybe that does serve to highlight Odo's loneliness and general alienation.
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Old April 4 2012, 05:15 PM   #1179
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Sindatur wrote: View Post
So, wait, you're saying the character's only purpose for being in the episode was to "get with" Kira, and somehow that's a dis-service to him? I figured characters would be lining up to be disrespected by Kira in this manner
Good point. Perhaps I should say that it's a bit disrespectful to Bajor as a whole that their First Minister is on the station for an important negotiation regarding the planet's future, but all that really matters to the episode is that he gets into Kira's pants.


Return to Grace (***)

First Minister Shakaar brings Kira on a romantic date, he wines and dines her to the point where she finds it impossible to say no to him (her words)... and he requests that she take part in a diplomatic mission with the Cardassians. Wow, he really is dull. If I were him I would have suggested a threesome with Leeta, but instead he sends his girlfriend away to spend time with a man that she hates? He's a weird politician, that's for sure.

The majority of this episode is centred on Kira and Dukat and their hate/creepy-love relationship with one another, and that gets a bit too repetitive for me. It doesn't help that these two characters were already forced to spend time together earlier this season, and even though I took more than three weeks away from DS9, it still feels like this episode is too close to Indiscretion for its own good. This episode could have used a b-story to cut away to every once and a while, as it is there's scene after scene of Kira and Dukat interacting with one another, with Ziyal thrown in occasionally. It's not that the scenes are bad, there's just too much of the same material being repeated throughout the episode.

The main plot is quite good, a down on his luck Dukat decides to earn some respect back by taking on a considerably more powerful Klingon ship. It's a pretty good episode for Dukat, we get to see a more human side of him through Ziyal, but he's still driven by his ego and resentment. When the Cardassian government decides to make concessions to the Klingons, he declares himself the only true Cardassian left and goes off to fight a guerilla war with his new toy. It's a pity we don't see more of him in that role before he runs off to join the Dominion, it's rather intriguing.

It's fitting that I watched this episode at the same time that Shatnertage has reached the meat of Damar's story in season 7, because it's ridiculous how underused he is here. It must have been so gratifying for Casey Biggs that he went from reading technical jargon from a computer screen to an impassioned resistance leader that gets to give speeches about freedom and sacrifice.
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Old April 5 2012, 05:51 PM   #1180
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Sons of Mogh (***)

I've got to start this review with the ending, don't I? It has a pretty good story, but then it ends in such a crazy, nonsensical way. Some might even call it offensive. It's a story that appears to have been a victim of overthinking things, of wanting to be unconventional and thought-provoking.

But enough about Mass Effect 3, let's talk about Sons of Mogh. (Those of you that saw this joke coming get a gold star. ) There are three ways the episode could have ended; Worf kills Kurn, Kurn sacrifices himself in a noble death, Kurn learns that there's more to life than the Klingon Empire and opens a jewellery store on the promenade. Okay, so those aren't the only three endings, but some variation on one of those three is what's expected. The problem is that the writers knew this and chose to come up with some other ending that we wouldn't see coming, and they came up with something pretty ridiculous. Why is it wrong to kill Kurn by stabbing him in the chest, but okay to kill him by erasing his identity? That's how I see it, it's murder in another form, and I don't see how Sisko, Bashir, or the others would be so willing to go along with it. In fact, I'm almost certain Bashir wouldn't considering the opinions about life that he expressed in Life Support. It's an unexpected random twist that doesn't make any sort of sense if you bother to scrutinise it, and I expect better from stories written by Ron Moore.

It's too bad because the rest of the episode was pretty good. Worf is forced to deal with the consequences of his actions in The Way of the Warrior, and eventually how far removed his is from true Klingons. We also get to see more of Kurn, and it's a pity that this ending makes it impossible for there to be more of him in the future. There's also a b-plot about the Klingons and their crazy mines, and it gives Kira an opportunity to blow things up, which is always a plus.

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Old April 5 2012, 06:15 PM   #1181
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I've always had a problem with the (relative) ease with which the concept of altering people's memories or identities is accepted in popular sci-fi, because as you say, TGB, it's at the very least equivalent to murder, but all too often I get the impression many people haven't quite seen it in those terms. The idea of "killing without really killing" doesn't work for me - I see it as no different from plain "killing", only refusing to accept that that's what you're doing. So the whole thing seems distasteful to me.
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Old April 5 2012, 07:15 PM   #1182
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I think when I first saw the episode I was hoping that the ending was a set-up for something to happen further down the line. Sadly that was not to be, at least not on the television. It does feel a bit like the writers are trying to have it both ways, and it does kind of bother me that the crew of DS9 has such an issue with Kurn taking his own life...especially since anyone who really wants to do that will find a way eventually.
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Old April 5 2012, 07:35 PM   #1183
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

I don't like the ending because it was a very TNG, "let's have our cake and eat it, too," safe type of ending. DS9 had mostly been starting to get away from being TNG-on-a-space-station after its first two seasons, but throughout the show there are still a few episodes here and there that harken back to that feel, and this is one of them.
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Old April 5 2012, 10:50 PM   #1184
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

TheGodBen wrote: View Post
...and I don't see how Sisko, Bashir, or the others would be so willing to go along with it. In fact, I'm almost certain Bashir wouldn't considering the opinions about life that he expressed in Life Support.
Yes but isn't this the same Doctor that
It may not be as serious as what they did to Kurn, but I wouldn't consider it trivial, either. It's not like removing a mole or something.

Julian's hard and fast moral code seems to fluctuate whenever it suits the writers. Contrast that with Dr. Leonard McCoy who always placed a high-premium on his medical code of ethics.

And by the way I agree 100% - murdering the mind is just as bad as murdering the body.
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Old April 6 2012, 05:36 PM   #1185
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Re: TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine



As a communist that wishes to bring down the evil capitalist system, I wholly approve of this episode and its message. I award it five red stars.


Meanwhile, in reality...

Bar Association (***)

Without getting into the politics of unions and management, I enjoyed this episode as a slice-of-life story. The idea of the Ferengi having to deal with the consequences of a labour union deciding to strike is an intriguing one, and this episode knows not to play it too seriously or two comically. This isn't really a comic episode and it's better than the average Ferengi episode for that reason, the jokes aren't as repetitive and we don't get bogged down in farcical scenes that are supposed to be funny but aren't.

That's not to say that it's a good episode, it's just pleasant-ish. I actually enjoyed seeing how others on the station reacted to the strike more than the strike material itself. I think the problem is Rom, I don't dislike the character but I don't believe him as a charismatic union leader. There are several points in the episode where Rom gives an impassioned speech that convinces the workers to stand together and it's just not convincing, because this is the guy who started the episode by pouring a drink in his ear and then awkwardly made a plea for a sympathy handjob. But one thing I do like about Rom in this episode is that he finally quits his job as a bartender and becomes a technician, it was about time that he got out from under Quark's shadow.

Meanwhile, O'Brien and Bashir fight in the Battle of Clontarf. I don't think that Bashir would have been upset about O'Brien getting to play the High King if he had known that he'd end up being slaughtered by Vikings while praying in a tent. Also, Worf decides to move onto the Defiant, because why not?
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