RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,185
Posts: 5,436,094
Members: 24,947
Currently online: 611
Newest member: CaptainJaymez

TrekToday headlines

Trek Screenwriter Washington D.C. Appearance
By: T'Bonz on Oct 23

Two Official Starships Collection Ships
By: T'Bonz on Oct 22

Pine In New Skit
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

Stewart In Holiday Film
By: T'Bonz on Oct 21

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

View Poll Results: Rate Rise Like Lions.
Outstanding 55 62.50%
Above Average 29 32.95%
Average 2 2.27%
Below Average 1 1.14%
Poor 1 1.14%
Voters: 88. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 31 2012, 04:55 PM   #181
Admiral_Young
Fleet Admiral
 
Admiral_Young's Avatar
 
Location: Gotham
View Admiral_Young's Twitter Profile
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

@Sci I doubt that Starfleet was a generic term used for the fleet, and even if it was, there are still certain overtones that come with it in the Mirror Universe for those who remember the tranny of the Empire, not to mention the very existence of Memory Omega seems to be about preventing the mistakes of the past and moving into a new future. The Commonwealth being a new space power would not want to "rock the boat" sort to speak or give impressions they were revisiting that past in any way. That would not be beneficial to their forward thinking process IMO.
__________________
Admiral Young
Chief of Operations

Ignoring the The Last Stand since 2011.
Admiral_Young is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 31 2012, 06:28 PM   #182
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
@Sci I doubt that Starfleet was a generic term used for the fleet, and even if it was, there are still certain overtones that come with it in the Mirror Universe for those who remember the tranny of the Empire, not to mention the very existence of Memory Omega seems to be about preventing the mistakes of the past and moving into a new future. The Commonwealth being a new space power would not want to "rock the boat" sort to speak or give impressions they were revisiting that past in any way. That would not be beneficial to their forward thinking process IMO.
I think that everything you suggested about what the Commonwealth would do is entirely plausible. I just also think the possibility that the word "Starfleet" is seen as a generic term rather than a specific term, like "Air Force" or "Navy" or "Luftwaffe," is also possible.

(After all, there was a lot of resentment of the Kingdom of Great Britain and its armed forces when the Thirteen Colonies declared independence -- yet no one suggested we should call it the United States Maritime Forces just to avoid using the same word in its name as the Royal Navy.)
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 31 2012, 06:37 PM   #183
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I think "Starfleet" is a pretty darn generic name for a fleet of starships. And according to the OED, it's been used in other works of fiction besides Star Trek, and while ST popularized the term, there's at least one documented use of "star fleet" preceding ST, from a 1939 story by Lester Del Rey.

Besides, at the time the Commonwealth comes into being, the Terran Empire's been extinct for over 85 years. I think more people would remember the tyranny of the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance by that point.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 31 2012, 06:47 PM   #184
Sci
Admiral
 
Sci's Avatar
 
Location: "We hold these truths to be self-evident..."
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Christopher wrote: View Post
I think "Starfleet" is a pretty darn generic name for a fleet of starships. And according to the OED, it's been used in other works of fiction besides Star Trek, and while ST popularized the term, there's at least one documented use of "star fleet" preceding ST, from a 1939 story by Lester Del Rey.
To be fair, "Starfleet" is used as a specific proper noun, too. Very rarely do characters say "the Starfleet" the way modern people will say "the Navy" or "the Air Force." So I can understand where Admiral_Young is coming from on that, too -- I just disagree, precisely because the word itself sounds so generic.

Besides, at the time the Commonwealth comes into being, the Terran Empire's been extinct for over 85 years. I think more people would remember the tyranny of the Klingon-Cardassian Alliance by that point.
Well, I think it's safe to say that people would probably remember both. The Third Reich's been gone for almost as long in real life as the Terran Empire had been when Rise Like Lions ends, but it's not like the memory of Nazi Germany is in any danger of being supplanted by the memory of East Germany just because it's the more recent tyranny.
__________________
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic Socialism, as I understand it." - George Orwell, 1946
Sci is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 31 2012, 07:37 PM   #185
Admiral_Young
Fleet Admiral
 
Admiral_Young's Avatar
 
Location: Gotham
View Admiral_Young's Twitter Profile
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I am arguing using the thinking that Starfleet isn't just a generic space naval term, but the name of an organization, I guess we both disagree...I'll concede though that it could be thought of in a more wide spread sense. I have just always looked at the usage of it as the generally accepted "title" of the Federation and Empire's space fleet. We could call the Commonwealth Fleet, the Omega Fleet That's pretty generic though as well I guess.
__________________
Admiral Young
Chief of Operations

Ignoring the The Last Stand since 2011.
Admiral_Young is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 31 2012, 09:08 PM   #186
George Steinbrenner
Fleet Admiral
 
George Steinbrenner's Avatar
 
Location: Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
View George Steinbrenner's Twitter Profile
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

The way I look at it is: 'Star fleet', as two words, is indeed a generic term that could apply to any space fleet. 'Starfleet', as ONE word, is a proper noun which applies to the fleet operated by the Federation (or the Terran Empire).

To put it another way: The Galactic Commonwealth maintains a star fleet, but not a Starfleet.

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
those who remember the tranny of the Empire
Admiral Frank N. Furter?
__________________
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
George Steinbrenner is online now   Reply With Quote
Old June 2 2012, 10:55 PM   #187
MatthiasRussell
Fleet Captain
 
MatthiasRussell's Avatar
 
Location: Seattle
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I was just watching "Through the Looking Glass" in DS9, season 3 and noticed that Sisko called mirror Jadzia "Dax". No one objected or looked confused.
__________________
"Can anyone remember when we used to be explorers?"
MatthiasRussell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2012, 12:23 AM   #188
DS9forever
Fleet Captain
 
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

^ The author posted something about that somewhere in this thread I think. It was something like MU Trill taking the names of deceased symbionts (only Memory Omega knew Dax was still alive) to honor their memory.
DS9forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2012, 12:27 AM   #189
Defcon
Rear Admiral
 
Defcon's Avatar
 
Location: Germany
View Defcon's Twitter Profile
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

DS9forever wrote: View Post
^ The author posted something about that somewhere in this thread I think. It was something like MU Trill taking the names of deceased symbionts (only Memory Omega knew Dax was still alive) to honor their memory.
http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?...1&postcount=78
Defcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2012, 12:28 AM   #190
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Actually, Jadzia did frown in puzzlement when Sisko called her "Dax" in "Through the Looking Glass." The intent, of course, was that she was surprised that Sisko was less violent than the man she'd known, but it could also be read as "What did he just call me?"

Jennifer later refers to her as Dax while speaking with Sisko, but maybe she picked that up from him.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2012, 01:10 AM   #191
David Mack
Writer
 
David Mack's Avatar
 
Location: New York, NY
View David Mack's Twitter Profile
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Christopher wrote: View Post
Actually, Jadzia did frown in puzzlement when Sisko called her "Dax" in "Through the Looking Glass." The intent, of course, was that she was surprised that Sisko was less violent than the man she'd known, but it could also be read as "What did he just call me?"

Jennifer later refers to her as Dax while speaking with Sisko, but maybe she picked that up from him.
These were my assumptions, as well.
__________________
~ David Mack | "Where were you when the page was blank?" — Truman Capote

Join me on Facebook & Twitter
David Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 3 2012, 02:38 AM   #192
T'Devilish
T'Bonz - Romulan Curmudgeon
 
T'Devilish's Avatar
 
Location: Across the Neutral Zone
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I got this as one of my Mother's Day gifts. Enjoyed it thoroughly.
__________________
Live long and suffer! - Ancient Romulan greeting.

Romulans aren't paranoid. We're merely proactively cautious.
T'Devilish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18 2012, 02:19 AM   #193
JD
Admiral
 
JD's Avatar
 
Location: Arizona, USA
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

I just finished this a couple minutes ago, and all I can say is wow. I absolutely loved every moment of it. I've been a big fan of the Mirror Universe since I first saw Crossover, and what Trek Lit has done with it has been awesome. I really liked the way it tied together all of the various threads set up by the earlier stories into one coherent conclusion. Absolutely amazing.
My Rating: 10/10. Poll vote: Outstanding.
__________________
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing, but it is not one half so bad as a lot of ignorance. - Terry Pratchett, Equal Rites
JD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18 2012, 04:18 AM   #194
David Mack
Writer
 
David Mack's Avatar
 
Location: New York, NY
View David Mack's Twitter Profile
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Thanks! Very kind of you to say. Glad you dug it.
__________________
~ David Mack | "Where were you when the page was blank?" — Truman Capote

Join me on Facebook & Twitter
David Mack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old June 18 2012, 05:56 AM   #195
stonester1
Rear Admiral
 
stonester1's Avatar
 
Re: Mirror Universe: Rise Like Lions by David Mack Review Thread (Spoi

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
The way I look at it is: 'Star fleet', as two words, is indeed a generic term that could apply to any space fleet. 'Starfleet', as ONE word, is a proper noun which applies to the fleet operated by the Federation (or the Terran Empire).

To put it another way: The Galactic Commonwealth maintains a star fleet, but not a Starfleet.

Admiral_Young wrote: View Post
those who remember the tranny of the Empire
Admiral Frank N. Furter?
Hence, the game "Star Fleet Battles" is NOT called "Starfleet Battles", since even though it is based in the TrekU, it is more than about the forces deployed by the United Federation of Planets.
__________________
"New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled, the humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in them?' " - H. G. Wells
stonester1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
reviewpoll_v1

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:02 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.