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Old March 30 2012, 11:07 AM   #121
DAYoung
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Miss Lemon wrote: View Post
DAYoung wrote: View Post
But it'd still be brave for Trek to have same-sex couples (or triples and quadruples, for the Denubulans out there). Not female bodies with sexless slugs, not crazed bisexual control freaks, just couples who happen to be the same sex.
I'm not too pleased about the crazed bisexuals either. Not my idea of a good role model. But then again, even some open-minded people in this thread seem to think being bisexual equals not being able to being in a committed relationship.
Yes, it's a silly conflation: committing to one gender and committing to one person. Not the same thing.

Having said this - and speculating wildly - it is possible that, given the stigma associated with homosexuality, some strongly extroverted types were more willing to express their same-sex desires. And strong extroversion, from memory, often comes with an increased likelihood of straying.

This does NOT mean bisexuality equals lack of commitment. It means that in more conservative societies, only the most extroverted are willing to reveal their bisexuality. And they're also more likely to be the ones with roaming eyes.

But as I said, I'm speculating wildly...
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Old March 30 2012, 11:17 AM   #122
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Bisexuals who are in longterm committed relationships are usually viewed upon as either gay or heterosexual depending on the gender of their partner.
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Old March 30 2012, 12:13 PM   #123
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Miss Lemon wrote: View Post
Bisexuals who are in longterm committed relationships are usually viewed upon as either gay or heterosexual depending on the gender of their partner.
That sounds about right.
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Old March 30 2012, 02:13 PM   #124
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Nightdiamond wrote: View Post
The Host dealt with a response from Beverly, who rejected her lover because its new host was female.
Oh crap! Yes of course it was.

I was getting myself confused with "The Outcast". Don't know why.
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Old March 30 2012, 04:26 PM   #125
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

teacake wrote: View Post
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When Trek did do gay storylines, like in Rejoined in DS9, it did cause an enormous fuss.
Did it? What was the fuss/response?
Got blown into a bit of a media storm, as another poster said it was touched on slightly on the DVD.

It was actually one of the most open minded episodes trek did on the subject. It was never even mentioned they were both women, so it could be implied that all the characters had no issue with same sex relationships.

It really does surprise me people actually HATE so much, if two guys want to get together it doesn't do anyone any harm, live and let live. I'd have thought this was fairly fundamental to the Trek universe, at least in the TNG era.
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Old March 30 2012, 04:32 PM   #126
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

The TNG era wasn't ready for that sort of thing. I'm surprised it didn't crop up in the later manifestations of the show.
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Old March 30 2012, 06:22 PM   #127
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

The Mirror Universe Homosexuality, was actually more of a slap in the face then anything. The Mirror Universe is evil and twisted, so, it's OK to show same sex attraction (since only evil and twisted people do it ), but, even then, it was only the women, never saw any indication of men hankering for men.

Rejoined, was handled very well, though, IMHO.
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Old March 30 2012, 10:07 PM   #128
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Honestly, Garak and Bashir should've had a fling. Everyone can see it.

And by 'everyone', I mean everyone important. And by 'everyone important', I mean folks who agree with me.
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Old March 30 2012, 10:36 PM   #129
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

DAYoung wrote: View Post
Honestly, Garak and Bashir should've had a fling. Everyone can see it.

And by 'everyone', I mean everyone important. And by 'everyone important', I mean folks who agree with me.
Including Adrew Robinson, who played it that way, and was actually told to tone it down by the Powers that Be
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Old March 30 2012, 10:37 PM   #130
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Garak was gay. Bashir didn't really seem to be. Not sure a fling would have made sense but to make it more obvious that Garak was gay (there were plenty of hints) would have been fine.

I used to wonder if the story about Dukat and Garak's feud might involve some incident when they were younger that Dukat was eager to squelch by having Garak exiled someplace where nobody important in Cardassian society might hear the sordid story.

Which is just a roundabout way of saying, if you're going to have a gay character, it would be a good idea to make use of it somehow. Just because Fed society is beyond being bigoted about homosexuality does not mean all societies are. It doesn't seem likely that Cardassian society would be enlightened in that regards, since they aren't in so many other ways.
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Old March 30 2012, 11:52 PM   #131
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

USS KG5 wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
USS KG5 wrote: View Post

When Trek did do gay storylines, like in Rejoined in DS9, it did cause an enormous fuss.
Did it? What was the fuss/response?
Got blown into a bit of a media storm, as another poster said it was touched on slightly on the DVD.

It was actually one of the most open minded episodes trek did on the subject. It was never even mentioned they were both women, so it could be implied that all the characters had no issue with same sex relationships.

It really does surprise me people actually HATE so much, if two guys want to get together it doesn't do anyone any harm, live and let live. I'd have thought this was fairly fundamental to the Trek universe, at least in the TNG era.
Naw, the Trek fandom's got a lot of close minded folks, not just about sexuality, but on a whole range of subjects.
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Old March 31 2012, 12:06 AM   #132
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Sindatur wrote: View Post
DAYoung wrote: View Post
Honestly, Garak and Bashir should've had a fling. Everyone can see it.

And by 'everyone', I mean everyone important. And by 'everyone important', I mean folks who agree with me.
Including Adrew Robinson, who played it that way, and was actually told to tone it down by the Powers that Be
Just another reason to love Andrew Robinson, IMO.
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Old March 31 2012, 02:45 AM   #133
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Bashir seems generally confused about a lot of things and I think he should have had the opportunity to work out some of that confusion with Garak.
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Old March 31 2012, 03:15 AM   #134
Ian Keldon
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Ian Keldon wrote: View Post
"The Host"
"Rejoined"
several MU eps
In the Host, Riker's girlfriend was literally a girl. She was part of a androgynous society, but the dialog made clear she was female. There was no homosexuality in the episode.
Wrong episode. I'm talking about the first Trill episode. The ambassador had a fling with Dr Crusher as a male then got put in a female host.

From Rejoined, Former Dax joining Torias Dax was male. And former Khan joining Nilani Kahn was female, They were married to each other and presumably had lots of heterosexual sex with each other. Jadzia Dax and Lenara Kahn (two females) did have attraction for each other, but was it because of their current sexual orientations, or their previous heterosexual relationship? They did exchanged in a "for old times sake" kiss, but did not engage in sex.
Didn't they? It's implied that they did at least once (off screen).

The impression I received from the mirror Attendant Kira, was that her bisexuality was a power game, and not a expression of orientation.

Strictly speaking, she wasn't gay.

Mirror Ezri was also lesbian.
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Old March 31 2012, 03:26 AM   #135
Ian Keldon
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Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

DAYoung wrote: View Post
But it'd still be brave for Trek to have same-sex couples (or triples and quadruples, for the Denubulans out there). Not female bodies with sexless slugs, not crazed bisexual control freaks, just couples who happen to be the same sex.

Phase II did it, and it didn't detract from the story at all. I can't say I was entirely comfortable with it, but I don't see this as a reason not to do it.
On the contrary, Phase II did it exactly the way I feared they would: big, bold, flag-waving, "look...a GAY scene". Gerrald went out of his way to insert "fluff" scenes to showcase the homosexual relationship and draw attention to it.

Which is why it came out as preachy and generally cringe worthy.
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