RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 139,585
Posts: 5,403,599
Members: 24,866
Currently online: 694
Newest member: Enterprise Capt

TrekToday headlines

October-November 2014 Trek Conventions And Appearances
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Cho Selfie TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

TPTB To Shatner: Shhh!
By: T'Bonz on Sep 30

Mystery Mini Vinyl Figure Display Box
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

The Red Shirt Diaries Episode Five
By: T'Bonz on Sep 29

Shatner In Trek 3? Well Maybe
By: T'Bonz on Sep 28

Retro Review: Shadows and Symbols
By: Michelle on Sep 27

Meyer: Revitalizing Star Trek
By: T'Bonz on Sep 26

Trek Costumes To Be Auctioned
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25

Hulu Snaps up Abrams-Produced Drama
By: T'Bonz on Sep 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Tech

Trek Tech Pass me the quantum flux regulator, will you?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 28 2012, 08:58 PM   #16
mickemoose
Ensign
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Even if the neck was constructed with a semi-monocoque design where the skin bears the stress of the load (eliminating the need for space-robbing, truss beams), there's still not much wiggle room in there.

That narrow space doesn't seem to offer anything functional for the crew, either work-related or recreational. It would be more appropriate to have an "officer's club" or crewman's lounge located in the widest portion of the ship - the main deck (deck 7, if you agree there's 11 decks in the saucer, that is).

I can, however, envision maintenance personnel walking down those narrow hallways in the neck as they inspect and test service points on conduits, etc. So, basically, those areas would be strictly maintenance corridors. I'm sure the neck has service areas just like any other part of the ship.

The windows on either side of the neck? I don't have a clue. I'm convinced the placement of windows all over the ship was done without even giving thought to what areas are actually inside those windows.

I suppose the windows on the neck could be used by the maintenance crew to visually inspect the hulls. They could look down to see the top of the engineering hull, and look up to see the underside of the saucer. Then again, maybe not!
mickemoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28 2012, 09:18 PM   #17
MyClone
Lieutenant Commander
 
MyClone's Avatar
 
Location: San Francisco
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Timo wrote: View Post
However, this probably would not fit an 8' wide hallway and Kirk's quarters in it.
Unless you put them in sideways. Would also explain why we never see those windows on the walls - they are actually skylights!

Semi-seriously, Starfleet seems enamored with flat structures, most prominently those funny saucers that even on big starships can only accommodate a deck or three. Arranging the interiors in a sort of "urban sprawl" seems to be preferred. And the neck would be a practical flat structure if treated sideways - probably quite a bit more practical than if sliced into decks in the upright position.

"Deck 12" could then refer to the entire neck, from saucer bottom to engineering hull top, and feature numerous curving and branching corridors.

Love this idea conceptually, but it does seem to go against the grain of known Starfleet design. I think there's no reason to assume that any or all of the rectangles on the neck are windows -- perhaps they are sensors of some kind?

Best, MyClone
MyClone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28 2012, 09:19 PM   #18
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

In airplane design, observation galleries were typically shunted to places where they did not interfere with more serious things such as propulsion or steering; sometimes these were built into the wings, even. The neck might be the only part of the ship deemed worthless enough to receive a crewmen's lounge or somesuch.

However, it should be taken into account that a lot of space and attention is given to recreation facilities on the TOS hero starship. There are multi-deck recreation rooms ("Let That Be..", perhaps the same facility as in ST:TMP?), and numerous smaller rooms; a bowling alley was once mentioned, even, although probably only in jest. Significant effort might be given to fitting an observation deck or other stargazing facility aboard the ship as well, then.

The best counterindication to that might be that Kirk didn't take Lenore Karidian to such a facility! Instead, we appear to witness an observation gallery next to the shuttlebay, as if that were the best Kirk could hope to offer. Certainly the kinked gallery there, with the angled walls, would fit better anywhere else but the neck.

If the rows of windows in the neck don't provide a spectacular view for visiting babes, then, we might have to speculate that they are off limits to civilians, even when attended by the Captain himself. That might mean dangerous and unergonomic spaces, or spaces with military secrets, or spaces dedicated to scientific solitude and calm. Why any of these spaces would require windows is very difficult to imagine, however.

My best guess currently is that the windows there cater for the discerning passenger. That is, the neck is an otherwise useless part of the ship and thus accommodates numerous passenger cabins. Some may be permanently configured for nonhuman passengers with special environmental requirements (this is a popular idea in older Trek literature and speculation, too), and many may await use empty for extended periods of time. However, Kirk once had to move down there as repairs on the upper decks of the ship were still ongoing following (or preceding) the shift to a lower-profile superstructure...

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 28 2012, 11:48 PM   #19
PvtKtara
Fleet Captain
 
PvtKtara's Avatar
 
Location: Colorado
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Why not chalk up the "deck 12" reference as what it is, an erroneous tidbit thrown out there that was just as quickly ignored once they settled on Deck 5 for the very same cabin?
__________________
WarDragon
PvtKtara is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2012, 12:00 AM   #20
wildstar
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Granted there are windows around the outside of the saucer which may or may not be lounges and rec rooms, but the neck seems like the perfect spot for lounges and small cozy officers' clubs and be able to look down on the orbited planet.
__________________
My homepage: http://www.timpalgut.com
My IMDB: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0657651/
wildstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2012, 10:01 AM   #21
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Why not chalk up the "deck 12" reference as what it is, an erroneous tidbit thrown out there that was just as quickly ignored once they settled on Deck 5 for the very same cabin?
Because there's no pressing reason to chuck it out, nor is it a good idea IMHO to decide that parts of Star Trek are more unreal than others...

Besides, Deck 5 wasn't exactly "settled upon". Top officers instead appeared to inhabit Deck 3 on most occasions, and Spock's Skipper's Cabin was up there in ST2 as well. For all we know, Kirk only got shunted to Deck 5 on the single occasion of the Babel Conference where more than a hundred VIPs had to be accommodated aboard. From "Elaan of Troyius", we know that top officers sometimes have to donate their cabins to high-ranking visitors...

If Deck 12 and the adjoining "Neck Decks" feature rarely used VIP cabins, both the windows and our inability to ever see them from the inside would be perfectly explained.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2012, 04:30 PM   #22
Patrickivan
Fleet Captain
 
Patrickivan's Avatar
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

You people have it all wrong... There's a brewery in the neck!
__________________
http://patrickivan.wordpress.com/page/2/

40 Years and ticking. Damn, that's too old fashioned.
40 years and still processing!
Patrickivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2012, 09:02 PM   #23
Forbin
Admiral
 
Forbin's Avatar
 
Location: I said out, dammit!
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

I like the neck being strictly full of conduits, struts and machinery, and the windows are there as an afterthought so maintenance personnel don't feel too claustrophobic.
Forbin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2012, 09:16 PM   #24
nightwind1
Commodore
 
nightwind1's Avatar
 
Location: Des Moines, IA
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Patrickivan wrote: View Post
You people have it all wrong... There's a brewery in the neck!
No, that's in the secondary hull.
nightwind1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 29 2012, 11:47 PM   #25
YARN
Fleet Captain
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

By my lights, the primary hull is primary (i.e., where the crew is housed). I have hard time imagining the neck being a human-friendly environment.

There are four main shapes that make up the enterprise. The primary hull, the secondary hull and the warp engines. The whispy connecting structures appear to be just that - connective structure. If the E had no warp drive, you would not have those popsicle-stick supports. If the E were a Miranda style ship (a Bird of Prey type design in TOS terms), there would be NO neck, because there would be nothing for the neck to connect to. These three parts are instrumental - they serve the purpose of connecting our saucers and cylinders.

The neck connects the primary hull to the secondary hull. This means wires, pipes, and elevators. It's hard for me to imagine that there are not internal supports in there to brace for torsional stress, so that's some room (how much?) gone too.

It seems to me that this part of the ship is basically access tubes, maintenance closets and other odds and ends. It's almost purely instrumental in linking one part of the ship to another. The main business of the ship being conducted in the main areas.
YARN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30 2012, 01:35 AM   #26
Jose Tyler
Lieutenant Commander
 
Jose Tyler's Avatar
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

YARN wrote: View Post
By my lights, the primary hull is primary (i.e., where the crew is housed). I have hard time imagining the neck being a human-friendly environment.

There are four main shapes that make up the enterprise. The primary hull, the secondary hull and the warp engines. The whispy connecting structures appear to be just that - connective structure. If the E had no warp drive, you would not have those popsicle-stick supports. If the E were a Miranda style ship (a Bird of Prey type design in TOS terms), there would be NO neck, because there would be nothing for the neck to connect to. These three parts are instrumental - they serve the purpose of connecting our saucers and cylinders.

The neck connects the primary hull to the secondary hull. This means wires, pipes, and elevators. It's hard for me to imagine that there are not internal supports in there to brace for torsional stress, so that's some room (how much?) gone too.

It seems to me that this part of the ship is basically access tubes, maintenance closets and other odds and ends. It's almost purely instrumental in linking one part of the ship to another. The main business of the ship being conducted in the main areas.
I agree. I think it would be primary structural support and a lot of space to move crew back and forth in an evacuation situation. Maybe in between structural support and power conduits there are small (like two chairs and a coffee table small) rooms for meditation, prayer, or a private game of chess by starlight. I think any use by crew would be more a case of clever humans making use of available space than space purposefully engineered for use by crew members.
__________________
Are you of the body?
Jose Tyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30 2012, 06:41 AM   #27
mickemoose
Ensign
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Interesting to note that one of the neck windows is orange on the decal sheet for the Polar Lights 1/1000 scale TOS kit. The exact same window on the other side is orange, also.

If I'm not mistaken, I recall seeing a close-up shot of the neck (can't remember what TOS episode it was) and that same window was lit up orange on the studio model. A marker light perhaps, instead of a window? Only Tom Sasser would know the answer to that since he designed the kit.
mickemoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30 2012, 07:50 AM   #28
Timo
Admiral
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

The whispy connecting structures appear to be just that - connective structure.
Yet it connects two decidedly inhabited parts of the ship, and assuredly features a means of personnel access between the two - plus wantonly displays multiple rows of windows!

I thus see every reason to argue that this structure is inhabited, being no more awkwardly shaped for that than the saucer. This doesn't mean I wouldn't agree that the habitation functions there are afterthoughts and things shunted to an inoffensive and uncontested location. Most habitation functions in most human vehicles are! Placing all the unskilled and useless VIP passengers in there would be a fairly good solution from the practical point of view, too.

The TMP refit certainly seems to attempt to make the neck area more utilitarian, turning the windows into the smallest portholes anywhere on the ship, adding the torpedo launcher lump, and drawing in the hull detailing the suggestive vertical shape of, well, it was intended to be the warp core but it's in the wrong place due to the engineering interior set cock-ups. But that may simply indicate that Starfleet sacrificed former passenger spaces to accommodate new gear in old dimensions.

Timo Saloniemi
Timo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30 2012, 03:15 PM   #29
YARN
Fleet Captain
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

Timo wrote: View Post
Why not chalk up the "deck 12" reference as what it is, an erroneous tidbit thrown out there that was just as quickly ignored once they settled on Deck 5 for the very same cabin?
Because there's no pressing reason to chuck it out, nor is it a good idea IMHO to decide that parts of Star Trek are more unreal than others...
If so, then it is just as much "James R. Kirk" as it is "James T. Kirk."

Kirk is, somehow, both "James R." and "James T."

And yet, the Trek community of authors and readers/viewers have arrived at the consensus view that it is, correctly, "James T. Kirk" and regard the "James R. Kirk" reference to be a mistake (regarding it as more unreal). It is up to you to explain how they were unjustified in doing so.
YARN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 30 2012, 05:37 PM   #30
blssdwlf
Commodore
 
Re: The Mystery Inside the TOS Primary Hull Support Pylon

That would depend on how one looks at that episode.

Is that episode part of the same continuity as the rest of the TOS episodes?

The "James R. Kirk" originates from Gary Mitchell, not Kirk himself from an in-universe POV.

How trustworthy is Mitchell in this case? Was it a deliberate mocking of Kirk or are they on a slightly different continuity than the rest of the TOS series or was it a mistake? If it was a mistake, that again points back to Mitchell's mistake although it would appear that it was deliberate mocking, IMO.

As to Deck 12, AFAIK, there are no references or indications in the TOS series as to where it is on the ship.
blssdwlf is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 06:01 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.