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Old March 21 2012, 08:29 PM   #91
Satyrquaze
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Prime directive violations, crossing the wrong boarder, sexual harassment, disregarding orders...
Just have to point out that you just perfectly described James T. Kirk's command style.
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Old March 21 2012, 10:20 PM   #92
C.E. Evans
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Prime directive violations, crossing the wrong boarder, sexual harassment, disregarding orders...
Just have to point out that you just perfectly described James T. Kirk's command style.
That's actually a myth. More often than not, Kirk toed the company line or looked for leeway within his given orders without outright violating them during TOS. Kirk as "Starfleet's bad boy" was really a retcon that got its legs in Star Trek II, but doesn't really match the more no-nonsense Kirk that actually was in TOS.
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Old March 21 2012, 10:29 PM   #93
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

The next captain should be a child elephant.
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Old March 21 2012, 10:40 PM   #94
Satyrquaze
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Prime directive violations, crossing the wrong boarder, sexual harassment, disregarding orders...
Just have to point out that you just perfectly described James T. Kirk's command style.
That's actually a myth. More often than not, Kirk toed the company line or looked for leeway within his given orders without outright violating them during TOS. Kirk as "Starfleet's bad boy" was really a retcon that got its legs in Star Trek II, but doesn't really match the more no-nonsense Kirk that actually was in TOS.
Hence the winky-smiley face afterward.

But, in fairness, I think 'myth' is too strong word there. Exaggeration or caricature maybe fits better. Myth implies that there were no incidents of those sort of natures.

How many times did he violate the Prime Directive? How many times did he innapropriately touch (or more) a subordinate? How many times did he cross the Neutral Zone border?
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Old March 21 2012, 11:30 PM   #95
C.E. Evans
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Satyrquaze wrote: View Post

Just have to point out that you just perfectly described James T. Kirk's command style.
That's actually a myth. More often than not, Kirk toed the company line or looked for leeway within his given orders without outright violating them during TOS. Kirk as "Starfleet's bad boy" was really a retcon that got its legs in Star Trek II, but doesn't really match the more no-nonsense Kirk that actually was in TOS.
Hence the winky-smiley face afterward.

But, in fairness, I think 'myth' is too strong word there. Exaggeration or caricature maybe fits better. Myth implies that there were no incidents of those sort of natures.

How many times did he violate the Prime Directive?
Officially, only one time--in order to save an entire civilization--and it wasn't even shown in TOS (it was actually mentioned in an episode of VOY). In fact, though, Kirk was a stickler for the Prime Directive and was noted for going after others who violated it. In instances in which the Prime Directive had already been violated by those people, Kirk then acted to either correct or minimize the damage.
How many times did he innapropriately touch (or more) a subordinate?
On screen, zero. Potentially offscreen, one.

Dr. Helen Noel was the only person under his direct command that he might have been romantically involved with.
How many times did he cross the Neutral Zone border?
Once. And he was under secret orders from Starfleet to do so in order to steal the Romulans' cloaking device.
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Old March 22 2012, 03:59 AM   #96
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

The only time Kirk overtly disobeyed orders was in Amok Time, and T'Pau covered his ass there.

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Old March 22 2012, 04:34 AM   #97
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

So the Rebel was never really a Rebel. He was the suck up who everyone hates because he ruins the fun by quoting the rule book every five seconds. Picard was kinda the same. Sisko broke some rules during War. Janeway though was pretty inconsistent on the whole rule thing.

Now it always struck me that non inteference only applied to groups that were not sufficiently advanced it never applied to Klingons and Romulans.
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Old March 22 2012, 02:20 PM   #98
Satyrquaze
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
On screen, zero. Potentially offscreen, one.

Dr. Helen Noel was the only person under his direct command that he might have been romantically involved with.
Areel Shaw (Definately subordinate. Definately in a relationship)
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Old March 22 2012, 02:45 PM   #99
Overmind
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

Captain Nog
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Old March 22 2012, 02:58 PM   #100
C.E. Evans
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
On screen, zero. Potentially offscreen, one.

Dr. Helen Noel was the only person under his direct command that he might have been romantically involved with.
Areel Shaw (Definately subordinate. Definately in a relationship)
And definitely not counting because Areel Shaw was not a member of the Enterprise crew. She was with the JAG office at Starbase 11. Commodore Stone was presumably her commanding officer.
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Old March 22 2012, 03:10 PM   #101
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

Well, I wasn't counting direct. Just subordinates.

They were in a relationships in the past, and Shaw described Kirk as the love of her life. She's three ranks lower than Kirk. She quite likely could have been a direct subordinate.

But anyway, at this point it becomes a case of arguing semantics. You say 'Myth', I say 'Exaggeration' based on a joke. In any event, Kirk got around and he earned his reputation honestly.
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Old March 22 2012, 03:29 PM   #102
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

Satyrquaze wrote: View Post
Well, I wasn't counting direct. Just subordinates.
That wasn't the issue, though. The discussion I was having was in regards to Kirk having a romance with a member of his crew. Shaw doesn't count.
They were in a relationships in the past, and Shaw described Kirk as the love of her life. She's three ranks lower than Kirk. She quite likely could have been a direct subordinate.
Nope. Kirk's relationship with Shaw was before he even took command of the Enterprise (they hadn't seen each other in years).
But anyway, at this point it becomes a case of arguing semantics. You say 'Myth', I say 'Exaggeration' based on a joke. In any event, Kirk got around and he earned his reputation honestly.
But his reputation is built largely on longtime exaggeration by fans and a later retcon in Star Trek II. If you look just at TOS, however, Kirk comes across as more a strait-laced character, especially with members of his own crew. With the exception of the aforementioned Dr. Noel, all of Kirk's romantic incidents have been with someone who wasn't a member of his crew.
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Old March 22 2012, 06:46 PM   #103
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

This is all true, but, I'm not sure it's entirely appropriate Diplomacy that Kirk "helped" about every woman he came across on missions
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Old March 22 2012, 07:03 PM   #104
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

The idea that Kirk "helped" about every woman he came across is also an long-held exaggeration. Kirk did have an eye for the ladies and did kiss a few, but he was actually more chaste than amorous with the majority of women he encountered during the TV series.
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Old March 22 2012, 07:09 PM   #105
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Re: Could we have an alien Captain?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
The idea that Kirk "helped" about every woman he came across is also an long-held exaggeration. Kirk did have an eye for the ladies and did kiss a few, but he was actually more chaste than amorous with the majority of women he encountered during the TV series.
One need to look no further than the Caption Contests to see all his sexploits

BTW, where does the "Spock is Bifurcated" meme come from?
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