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Old March 17 2012, 08:38 AM   #406
teacake
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I'm curious Lynx--do you think there is ever a case of a "character not working" or a "character being difficult to write for"?
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Old March 17 2012, 09:42 AM   #407
Lynx
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
I'm curious Lynx--do you think there is ever a case of a "character not working" or a "character being difficult to write for"?
"Character difficult to write for", yes.

"Character not working", no that's up to the writers.

Since I've been dabbling with fan-fiction myself, I do know that some characters can be more difficult to write for than others. But in that case, I try to go round the problems by slightly changing what's difficult to write for with the character or concentrate on areas where the character definitely is working.

If I might present two examples: B'Elanna Torres is a brilliant engineer and a splendid character when it comes to fixing technical problems. Since the technical side of SF isn't my strongest side, it can be difficult to come up with plausible and realistic scenarios where B'Elanna can save the day for the crew. So when it comes to B'Elanna, I concentrate on the more action character side of her.

When it comes to Kim, he's best as the side-kick for Paris or in some away mission with Chakotay, Tuvok or Paris where he can contribute. So that's where I put him.

Note also that while I'm an amateur when it comes to such things, then I expect more from professional writes.

Not to mention that if I told my boss at work that I simply can't come up with something to something I'm supposed to do, then he would say something like "I see the problem but XX can help you out with this" or if he's having a bad day, he might tell me to pack my bags.
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Old March 18 2012, 09:10 AM   #408
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I agree it was a huge mistake to fire Lien just because she was a woman and Jeri Ryan was hired. I mean, just look at the male characters:

Chakotay (buried in his footlocker)
Tuvok (only every seven years)
Kim (hadn't dropped yet)
Paris (word on the street: tiny)
EMH (computer generated)
Neelix (eww yuk)

Clearly this was the one big opportunity to make the definitive All Girl science fiction show. TPTB should present themselves at the nearest convention and lash their bodies for missing the obvious opportunity. After all, the ratings could have only gone up. (Especially after the Starfleet miniskirt directive was transmitted in.)
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Old March 18 2012, 09:14 AM   #409
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I think that with some effort, most characters can be made to work. And with the case of Kes who was so full of potential (as Kenneth Biller pointed out), its just shoddy to give up then say "oh she wasn't working". More like you couldn't be bothered.

Also, I've already pointed out that in the Biller interview, he said that the real pressure to get rid of Lien was coming from the studio and not the writers. If the writing room was up in arms over how difficult Kes was to write for, I think he would have said that in in the interview and not "she was an interesting character full of possibilities" and "the real pressure to drop Kes came from the studio". Clearly the main reason to get rid of Kes was because she wasn't testing very well with audiences at that point.
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Old March 18 2012, 09:16 AM   #410
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

BrownShatner wrote: View Post
Clearly this was the one big opportunity to make the definitive All Girl science fiction show.
You mean it isn't?

Oh right..
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Old March 18 2012, 09:24 AM   #411
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

What about Cleopatra 2525?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206476/

Three female leads, and a fourth disemboded female computer voice butler.

There was a male robot they had sex with now and then, when he wasn't programmed to be evil and kill them all.

It was made by the less famous people behind Hercules and Xena.
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Old March 18 2012, 12:37 PM   #412
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

What about Cleopatra 2525?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206476/

Three female leads, and a fourth disemboded female computer voice butler.

There was a male robot they had sex with now and then, when he wasn't programmed to be evil and kill them all.

It was made by the less famous people behind Hercules and Xena.
Horrid show from the makers of Hercules and Xena. Jennifer Sky was easy on the eyes though. Even that couldn't keep me watching past the first few episodes. It's too bad they chose to make the show and let Xena: Pregnant Princess act heavily in that half of the season (most of those episodes are ranked among the worst in the series by Xena fans and many of those were written by the same duo that went on to write Star Trek & Transformers. They also wrote many of the worst eps of Hercules). Should've kept Sky as Amarice and have her take Xena's share of the fighting burden with Gabrielle.
(Amarice appeared in late Season 4/early Season 5 and was written out to become the lead in 2525. It was clear at the time she was in the same mold as Joxer, Iolaus, a major companion to Xena or Herc. It seemed like that's why she was there)
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Old March 19 2012, 03:06 AM   #413
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Lynx wrote: View Post

If I might present two examples: B'Elanna Torres is a brilliant engineer and a splendid character when it comes to fixing technical problems. Since the technical side of SF isn't my strongest side, it can be difficult to come up with plausible and realistic scenarios where B'Elanna can save the day for the crew. So when it comes to B'Elanna, I concentrate on the more action character side of her.
You've just proven why Kes was written into as corner.
You had a character that's a brilliant Engineer and you have no creative way to develop that aspect of the character, so you ignore it. Just like they did with Kes' aging & mental powers. The two aspects that made her standout among everyone else. Without them, Kes' develpoment doesn't become anymore exciting that Harry's.
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Old March 19 2012, 06:49 AM   #414
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

exodus wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post

If I might present two examples: B'Elanna Torres is a brilliant engineer and a splendid character when it comes to fixing technical problems. Since the technical side of SF isn't my strongest side, it can be difficult to come up with plausible and realistic scenarios where B'Elanna can save the day for the crew. So when it comes to B'Elanna, I concentrate on the more action character side of her.
You've just proven why Kes was written into as corner.
You had a character that's a brilliant Engineer and you have no creative way to develop that aspect of the character, so you ignore it. Just like they did with Kes' aging & mental powers. The two aspects that made her standout among everyone else. Without them, Kes' develpoment doesn't become anymore exciting that Harry's.
What about her personality? That was what really made the character. Her curiosity, will to explore and take risks to do that plus her ability to move around obstacles and problems and attack them from another angle. Not to mention that her mental abilities as they were in "Persistence Of Vision" and "Cold Fire" could be used in many situations.

Taking my examples as "evidence" that Kes was written into a corner is also a bit exaggerated, I mean they are professional writers, they should do better than I could. Not to mention that they were a staff of writers. If one of them had problems with one character, then there must have been others who could give a helping hand. I also have to state that if I had been one of those writers and was paid to come up with stories about those great characters, then I would have done that, even when it comes to the problems I mentioned about my capability to come up with ideas for Torres and Kim.

I would also like to point out that during the three years Kes was in the series, they did manage to come up with more and better Kes stories and plots than they did for Kim for seven years.

And I'm still confused how all of them suddenly lost their abilities to write for the character. Must have been some decease, maybe the "Taylor flu".

And remember: "Character wasn't working"+"Mutual agreement"=Foul play.
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Old March 19 2012, 06:54 AM   #415
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Christ, who do I have to blow to get off this newsfeed?
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Old March 19 2012, 07:13 AM   #416
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Your own fingers?
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Old March 19 2012, 06:41 PM   #417
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Christ, who do I have to blow to get off this newsfeed?
Me.
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Old March 20 2012, 03:18 AM   #418
DeepSpaceWine
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You've just proven why Kes was written into as corner.
Nobody writes Kes into a corner!
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Old March 20 2012, 04:29 AM   #419
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Sandoval wrote: View Post
doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Christ, who do I have to blow to get off this newsfeed?
Me.
The desperation in this thread is getting staler.

We need FRESH desperation.

WHY WAS KES MURDERED, WHY WHY WHY?! For boobs?!? Why couldn't we have traded Harry for those same boobs and then we could have curious, wide eyed Kes AND boobs!! Taylor's lies poisoned Voyager and they must be EXPOSED.
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Old March 20 2012, 04:40 AM   #420
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Harry and Tom were a fine set of exposed boobs.

Apotheosis is not not murder.

Then, the powers that be promote lots of people into meaningless figure head positions to keep them from selling off the homeworld.
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