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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old March 14 2012, 04:13 PM   #16
Guy Gardener
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

But here's the really odd thing which happened all too often on Voyager.

The writers were a little out of touch with "some" of their audience and when they thought they were writing an Odyssean heroic Archetype, they were not.

Efforts to make her seem human by giving into violence (Equinox) or madness (night) only made Janeway seem mad and violent, which is not the behaviour one would expect from a well rounded human being.

Did Picard seem weak in Chain of Command when he admitted that he saw five lights?

Yes.

But it was understandable.

Everyone breaks on the third day.

He didn't seem weak because he broke, he was just a big girls blouse about it after the fact. A real man would have turned to bourbon like my gramps when he came back from the war.

And...

Making Deanna's education seem justified is unforgivable.
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Old March 14 2012, 04:55 PM   #17
M-Red
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

a bit?


just a bit?
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Old March 14 2012, 05:30 PM   #18
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

I think a problem is Janeway seemed to be more intolerant of differing opinions then other captains were. Janeway gave Harry Kim a reprimand for getting a space STD, busted Tom Paris down to ensign for a year and half and had him sent to solitary confinement for 30 days. She also had Chakotay sent to his room during the Equinox story. Stuff like that made her seem like a control freak.
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Old March 14 2012, 05:40 PM   #19
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

The Overlord wrote: View Post
I think a problem is Janeway seemed to be more intolerant of differing opinions then other captains were. Janeway gave Harry Kim a reprimand for getting a space STD, busted Tom Paris down to ensign for a year and half and had him sent to solitary confinement for 30 days. She also had Chakotay sent to his room during the Equinox story. Stuff like that made her seem like a control freak.
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Old March 14 2012, 05:49 PM   #20
Guy Gardener
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

Tom and Harry should have been banned form all away missions/face time with aliens from thereafter.

Timothy McVey blew up a building because he disagreed with the local governments politics.

John Holmes caught aids. he was told that if he he had sex with anyone else that they would die, so he would have to give up his participation in the porn industry. He didn't. People died. He then fled the country and continued to spread aids to international porn stars in Europe before they too found out exactly how callous and disinterested with the well being of his fellow man he was.

I would have made Tom and Harry janitors after pulling that shit.
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Old March 14 2012, 09:51 PM   #21
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

But she needed them.. in the AQ she could have just gotten replacements. Maybe she comes across as a tyrant because these outbreaks of insubordination are a lot more common then they should be. The big crew breakdown from being 70 years from home breaking out all over the ship so Janeway has to balance being tyrannical with keeping people still functioning in the workplace.
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Old March 14 2012, 10:14 PM   #22
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

No, she was not!

Or to quote Chakotay from the episode "Caretaker: "She's the captain".

I find her no worse than Kirk, Picard or Sisko when it comes to be in charge. Kirk could be described as a tyrant sometimes but not Janeway.
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Old March 14 2012, 10:15 PM   #23
Lynx
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Tom and Harry should have been banned form all away missions/face time with aliens from thereafter.

Timothy McVey blew up a building because he disagreed with the local governments politics.

John Holmes caught aids. he was told that if he he had sex with anyone else that they would die, so he would have to give up his participation in the porn industry. He didn't. People died. He then fled the country and continued to spread aids to international porn stars in Europe before they too found out exactly how callous and disinterested with the well being of his fellow man he was.

I would have made Tom and Harry janitors after pulling that shit.
What about Dirk Diggler?
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Old March 15 2012, 01:33 AM   #24
Guy Gardener
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

Same guy. Amalgamated a little, but Diggler was mostly Holmes.

Teacake, is it possible that Janeway put a scurry of time delayed, time released punishments, penalizations and reprimands in their permanent records for harry and Tom that were not to take effect until Voyager returned to the Alpha Quadrant?

Which is no worse than the handcuffs and cells waiting for the Maquis on the other side of the AQ border.
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Old March 15 2012, 01:48 AM   #25
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
I wrote a story once where the hero tried to escape from my word processor and kill me.
Did he succeed?
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Old March 15 2012, 01:54 AM   #26
Guy Gardener
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

I have a rule.

If some one tries to kill me.

Really tries to kill me.

Not a car accident, but you know, a gun, a knife or tying me up and throwing me in a river.

I'm allowed to rape them.

So no.

I didn't rape myself.
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Old March 15 2012, 12:42 PM   #27
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two birds

I think she is more of an aficionado and she certainly was no bully. In Scientific Method she wanted to kill the little guy that was put in prison but a stream of words was all she managed. If she didn't show herself in the ep. and her powers over the crew, Voyager and everyone all became horribly dead.
Captains depicted in books in history mostly are tyrannical. English captains are tyrannical.
Therefore: Tyranny and captaincy are birds of a feather.
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Old March 15 2012, 12:49 PM   #28
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

A starship is not a democracy.
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Old March 15 2012, 01:38 PM   #29
Guy Gardener
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Re: two birds

Lord Manitou wrote: View Post
I think she is more of an aficionado and she certainly was no bully. In Scientific Method she wanted to kill the little guy that was put in prison but a stream of words was all she managed. If she didn't show herself in the ep. and her powers over the crew, Voyager and everyone all became horribly dead.
Captains depicted in books in history mostly are tyrannical. English captains are tyrannical.
Therefore: Tyranny and captaincy are birds of a feather.
Unless you're talking about a tiny scene in scientific method I didn't assume was consequential, are you sure you're talking about the right episode?

This was the episode where she tired to murder her crew, because if she couldn't have them, no one could... Not that Picard and Kirk both didn't activate the self-destruct and listen to the countdown when powerful aliens offered these blokes lives as toys.
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Old March 15 2012, 04:10 PM   #30
sonak
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Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

teacake wrote: View Post
A starship is not a democracy.

no, but that doesn't mean a captain can do whatever he or she wants either.
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