Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant?

The Overlord · March 14 2012, 06:57 AM

I thought this was interesting, its a video review of a Voyager episode and Janeway came off as a bit of tyrant in that episode. Does Janeway come off as a tyrant some times?

http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated...review-5999206

teacake · March 14 2012, 07:17 AM

You_Will_Fail · March 14 2012, 08:30 AM

I don't feel like she was coming off as a tyrant in "Latent Image" at all. She'd already been through all the ethical implications of rewriting the Doctor's program back when she did it the first time, which is why she wasn't open to discussion the second time initially, why retread old ground? But she did actually come around and change her mind.
As for the rest of the time...well she IS a military captain and I wouldn't really say she consistently cruel to the crew so I wouldn't say she was a tyrant no.

The_Baron · March 14 2012, 10:03 AM

One word.

tuvix!

teacake · March 14 2012, 10:36 AM

I think you mean two words.

Guy Gardener · March 14 2012, 10:55 AM

Well if you believe that, you might as well saw Tuvix in half.

teacake · March 14 2012, 10:59 AM

The Doctor is the REAL mother.

Janeway makes a better tyrant than Solomon.

lurok · March 14 2012, 11:50 AM

Voyager was a ship of tyrants. Even sweet little Kes had a crack.

teacake · March 14 2012, 12:01 PM

"Torture me all you like Demonica, I'll never crack!"

Guy Gardener · March 14 2012, 12:39 PM

lurok wrote:

Voyager was a ship of tyrants. Even sweet little Kes had a crack.

Sweet little Kes had a sweet little crack?

C.E. Evans · March 14 2012, 02:03 PM

I don't think Janeway was any more a tyrant than Archer, Kirk, Picard, and Sisko were.

Guy Gardener · March 14 2012, 02:51 PM

Only Archer was truly on the frontier to be capable of being a tyrant.

But he was an idiot.

The other three had oversight, and if their crew thought they were dicks, these justifiable malcontent's could just request a transfer or file charges of misconduct at the next starbase's jag office.

In Sisko's big dalliance towards the darkside in In the pale Moon light, he still went to starfleet command and asked permission to do what Garak was conning him into doing.

Momma's boy.

Did you see the TNG the Drumhead or TOS Court-martial of DS9 Rules of Engagement?

Checks and balances.

If any one tried to check or balance Janeway she threatened to delete them, or sent them to their room.

Good lord look how pathetic the Mutiny in ENT hatchery was while Archer was clinically insane that the crew still segregated into a civil war, or singularity where Archer sends everyone who is acting odd to their room... He has no tools for dealing with a contentious crew like a real tyrant would... like how PIcard can flood the ship with neurozene gas at the first whiff of discontent.

C.E. Evans · March 14 2012, 02:56 PM

My point still stands. All Trek captains are written to be whatever is necessary for the story.

Guy Gardener · March 14 2012, 03:06 PM

I wrote a story once where the hero tried to escape from my word processor and kill me.

But it's still what I wanted him to do.

It's very rare that fictional characters have free will.

sonak · March 14 2012, 03:36 PM

She could come off as a tyrant at times. "Tuvix," "Equinox," "Nothing Human," etc. I think the problem was two-fold:

1. She was off on her own, with no Starfleet to check her authority

2. She was written so inconsistently in terms of her principles(one week she's a Prime Directive fundamentalist, the next she's flexible) that it made her seem like she was on arbitrary power trips sometimes.

March 14 2012, 06:57 AM	#1
The Overlord Captain	Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? I thought this was interesting, its a video review of a Voyager episode and Janeway came off as a bit of tyrant in that episode. Does Janeway come off as a tyrant some times? http://blip.tv/sf-debris-opinionated...review-5999206

March 14 2012, 07:17 AM	#2
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

March 14 2012, 08:30 AM	#3
You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? I don't feel like she was coming off as a tyrant in "Latent Image" at all. She'd already been through all the ethical implications of rewriting the Doctor's program back when she did it the first time, which is why she wasn't open to discussion the second time initially, why retread old ground? But she did actually come around and change her mind. As for the rest of the time...well she IS a military captain and I wouldn't really say she consistently cruel to the crew so I wouldn't say she was a tyrant no. __________________ My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys

March 14 2012, 10:03 AM	#4
The_Baron Commander Location: Bournemouth, UK	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? One word. tuvix!

March 14 2012, 10:36 AM	#5
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? I think you mean two words. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

March 14 2012, 10:55 AM	#6
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? Well if you believe that, you might as well saw Tuvix in half. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

March 14 2012, 10:59 AM	#7
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? The Doctor is the REAL mother. Janeway makes a better tyrant than Solomon. __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

March 14 2012, 11:50 AM	#8
lurok Commodore Location: Lost In The EU Expanse	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? Voyager was a ship of tyrants. Even sweet little Kes had a crack.

March 14 2012, 12:01 PM	#9
teacake Admiral Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? "Torture me all you like Demonica, I'll never crack!" __________________ Rider: I can't believe you'd kill me for a field of empty holes. J'onn: It's all I have. ■ ■ ■ Janeway does Melbourne

March 14 2012, 02:03 PM	#11
C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? I don't think Janeway was any more a tyrant than Archer, Kirk, Picard, and Sisko were. __________________ "Shout, shout, let it all out..."

March 14 2012, 02:51 PM	#12
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? Only Archer was truly on the frontier to be capable of being a tyrant. But he was an idiot. The other three had oversight, and if their crew thought they were dicks, these justifiable malcontent's could just request a transfer or file charges of misconduct at the next starbase's jag office. In Sisko's big dalliance towards the darkside in In the pale Moon light, he still went to starfleet command and asked permission to do what Garak was conning him into doing. Momma's boy. Did you see the TNG the Drumhead or TOS Court-martial of DS9 Rules of Engagement? Checks and balances. If any one tried to check or balance Janeway she threatened to delete them, or sent them to their room. Good lord look how pathetic the Mutiny in ENT hatchery was while Archer was clinically insane that the crew still segregated into a civil war, or singularity where Archer sends everyone who is acting odd to their room... He has no tools for dealing with a contentious crew like a real tyrant would... like how PIcard can flood the ship with neurozene gas at the first whiff of discontent. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

March 14 2012, 02:56 PM	#13
C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Location: Saint Louis (aka Defiance)	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? My point still stands. All Trek captains are written to be whatever is necessary for the story. __________________ "Shout, shout, let it all out..."

March 14 2012, 03:06 PM	#14
Guy Gardener Admiral Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? I wrote a story once where the hero tried to escape from my word processor and kill me. But it's still what I wanted him to do. It's very rare that fictional characters have free will. __________________ "Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft." Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz

March 14 2012, 03:36 PM	#15
sonak Rear Admiral Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination	Re: Was Janeway a bit of a tyrant? She could come off as a tyrant at times. "Tuvix," "Equinox," "Nothing Human," etc. I think the problem was two-fold: 1. She was off on her own, with no Starfleet to check her authority 2. She was written so inconsistently in terms of her principles(one week she's a Prime Directive fundamentalist, the next she's flexible) that it made her seem like she was on arbitrary power trips sometimes.