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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old March 11 2012, 11:29 AM   #106
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

Allyn Gibson wrote: View Post
Comic Book Resources has up an interview with the Tiptons about the crossover. They talk about why it's a TNG story (25th-anniversary, airing currently on BBC America) and the profound differences between the Borg and the Cybermen, amongst other things.
Hmm. They're engaging in a bit of retconning there, using First Contact/VOY-style Borg instead of the TNG designs even though it's set during TNG. And I'm pretty sure the Borg drone to the left in that first image is based on a picture of Seven of Nine when she was fully Borgified.
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Old March 11 2012, 07:52 PM   #107
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

The First Contact/VOY-style Borg look cooler. It makes sense to use the updated design for them.
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Old March 11 2012, 09:50 PM   #108
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

Sci wrote: View Post
Hmm. They're engaging in a bit of retconning there, using First Contact/VOY-style Borg instead of the TNG designs even though it's set during TNG.
First Contact itself did that with the BOBW flashbacks...
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Old March 11 2012, 10:17 PM   #109
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

ATimson wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Hmm. They're engaging in a bit of retconning there, using First Contact/VOY-style Borg instead of the TNG designs even though it's set during TNG.
First Contact itself did that with the BOBW flashbacks...
Those were dream sequences, though.

It's not a huge deal, but it's just something I noticed.
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Old March 11 2012, 10:31 PM   #110
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

ATimson wrote: View Post
Sci wrote: View Post
Hmm. They're engaging in a bit of retconning there, using First Contact/VOY-style Borg instead of the TNG designs even though it's set during TNG.
First Contact itself did that with the BOBW flashbacks...
Also, whenever Voyager showed flashbacks featuring the Borg set either before TNG or during it, they always used the First Contact design. I always assumed that was one change that wasn't meant to be acknowledged. As far as anyone is concerned, they always looked like that.
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Old March 12 2012, 05:59 AM   #111
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

captcalhoun wrote: View Post
the Tiptons interview had one of them saying that as far as he's concerned, it's canon and his definition of canon is: "if i like it, it's canon."
Yeah... that's a little misleading.... here's the WHOLE quote:

Scott: My position on the "canon" question is always a simple one: If I like a story, if it had an emotional impact on me, then it happened, at least for me. When you get right down to it, every reader has their own "canon" of stories that matter, and ones that don't. We're just trying to create one that matters.
I think the important bit is: "every reader has their own "canon" of stories that matter, and ones that don't."
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Old March 14 2012, 08:37 AM   #112
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

The changed look of the borg doesn't really bug me. I just assume its a case of 'thats how they would have looked in TNG if they'd had a bit more money'.

Kinda like Roddenberry's explaination way back when of why the TMP Klingons had ridges.


Professor Zoom wrote: View Post

Yeah... that's a little misleading.... here's the WHOLE quote:

Scott: My position on the "canon" question is always a simple one: If I like a story, if it had an emotional impact on me, then it happened, at least for me. When you get right down to it, every reader has their own "canon" of stories that matter, and ones that don't. We're just trying to create one that matters.
I think the important bit is: "every reader has their own "canon" of stories that matter, and ones that don't."
I was going to make the same point. Don't each of us have our own personal canon? If we hate a story, we ignore it. If we like it, we tend to fit it into our own personal view of the universe.
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Old March 14 2012, 12:55 PM   #113
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

Cutter John wrote: View Post
I was going to make the same point. Don't each of us have our own personal canon? If we hate a story, we ignore it. If we like it, we tend to fit it into our own personal view of the universe.
No, we have a personal continuity. By definition there's no such thing as a personal canon.
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Old March 16 2012, 02:02 AM   #114
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

ATimson wrote: View Post
No, we have a personal continuity. By definition there's no such thing as a personal canon.
Try telling that to those guys on Sons of Guns.

Sorry - canon/cannon jokes never get old with me.

Anyway, anyone wanting a bit of a chuckle might want to check out the back pages of IDW's Doctor Who Ongoing #15 that came out this week. There's a little Fred Hembeck comic strip (remember HIM? Haven't seen his name in ages) commenting on Doctor Who crossovers. I mention it because as anyone who reads IDW knows they always run about 10 pages of house ads at the back. The strip is on the promo page for upcoming issues right after the "Next issue" promo for #16. Considering comics are put together months in advance, therefore this issue would have been put together and Hembeck's comic strip commissioned well before the TNG crossover announcement, someone at IDW (or at least Hembeck) must have known the announcement was going to get mixed reaction from some quarters!

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Old March 20 2012, 02:44 PM   #115
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

ATimson wrote: View Post
No, we have a personal continuity. By definition there's no such thing as a personal canon.
Sounds like pretty much the same thing.
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Old March 20 2012, 04:09 PM   #116
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

I have a personal cannon...if the police ever find out I'm screwed...
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Old March 20 2012, 07:50 PM   #117
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

i have a personal hand-cannon, but it's okay cuz it's in Modern Warfare 3...
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Old March 20 2012, 11:02 PM   #118
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

Starkers wrote: View Post
I have a personal cannon...if the police ever find out I'm screwed...
Not if yours is bigger than theirs ....
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Old March 21 2012, 03:10 AM   #119
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

Cutter John wrote: View Post
Don't each of us have our own personal canon? If we hate a story, we ignore it. If we like it, we tend to fit it into our own personal view of the universe.
But that's unworkable, because then fans and writers lose frame of reference. For example, let's say (just for fun) that the new companion they introduce tomorrow ends up being the daughter of The Master. But uh oh - you hated the Master stories, from Terror of the Autons through to Last of the Time Lords. They didn't happen (which also means the Fourth and Tenth Doctors never regenerated, or at least not in the way depicted). So how can you reconcile the Master's daughter?

I've seen people try to pick and choose "personal canon" in Star Trek and it doesn't work. Lots of people selectively ignore Enterprise or Voyager or even DS9 and TNG, or the Abrams movie. Just as there are Who fans who refuse to consider the 1996 movie as canon or - worse - reject the entire 2005 revival because the 2001 webcast Death Comes to Time apparently killed off the Doctor in his Seventh incarnation. So therefore you have fans who have a schism between them because how can someone extoll the virtues of "Blink" or Amy Pond with someone who, thanks to their personal canon, feels the Doctor died way back when he was travelling with Ace?

You can choose to forget stories. Make "Fear Her" or "The Twin Dilemma" an unpleasant and fading memory. But they still need to have happened.

Dragging things back on point, it's easier to ignore something like the TNG crossover, because it's not televised. It's easy to ignore the existence of the Doctor's daughter Miranda from the Eighth Doctor novels, or the fact Romana II regenerated into a somewhat evil Romana III. Or the suggestion that Gallifreyans are born on looms and Susan was some princess or something and not the Doctor's granddaughter at all. Because none of this is on TV.

So I'm willing to give the crossover the benefit of the doubt until I see how they handle it and -primarily - if it's a good story. And if it isn't, then pfft! - I'll file it with those stories involving talking robot dinosaurs and shape-shifting penguins and move on.

Alex
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Old March 21 2012, 06:53 AM   #120
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Re: Holy ....! Doctor Who/Star Trek Crossover coming From IDW!

I highly recommend people read "Star Trek/Legion of Superheroes" first to see how Chris Roberson treated both franchises, I've said this before in the other thread, it has been sublime and better than I expected, and both franchises were treated equally and with the respect they both deserve. There are even continuity references for both as well. I was both excited and hesitant about it when it was first announced but fell in love with the thing after the first issue.

I understand that this will be a different story, with different writers, but if they treat it with the same passion and effort that Roberson treated Star Trek/Legion of Superheroes, it should be awesome.
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