RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,914
Posts: 5,388,545
Members: 24,720
Currently online: 545
Newest member: manogars

TrekToday headlines

IDW Publishing November Trek Comic
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Pegg/Wright Trilogy In The Works
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Star Trek: The Compendium Rebate Details
By: T'Bonz on Aug 20

Gold Key Archives Volume 2
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Takei Documentary Wins Award
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Cumberbatch To Voice Khan
By: T'Bonz on Aug 19

Shaun And Ed On Phineas and Ferb
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

New Ships Coming From Official Starships Collection
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Trek Stars Take On Ice Bucket Challenge
By: T'Bonz on Aug 18

Retro Review: Profit and Lace
By: Michelle on Aug 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Welcome to the Trek BBS! > General Trek Discussion

General Trek Discussion Trek TV and cinema subjects not related to any specific series or movie.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 13 2012, 11:22 AM   #91
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

I think The Castellen is just saying people are people. Full of diversity whether it's beliefs in science, religion, aliens or whether it's shifting biologies, sexual preference, social constructs. In tv land TPTB see only the pieces, not the people underneath so what should be a story about two people becomes a story about two girls pashing.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 02:02 PM   #92
USS KG5
Vice Admiral
 
USS KG5's Avatar
 
Location: England's green and pleasant land.
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
The TV shows really dropped the ball. TPTB were far more interested in "playing it safe" and making as much money as possible than to"risk" adding a gay character that might upset some backward hicks and bible thumpers.
They do have rather a lot of those in America though. They are also a very powerful lobby. Not surprising Berman ran scared when it was his job to guide trek to $$$ not controversy.

When Trek did do gay storylines, like in Rejoined in DS9, it did cause an enormous fuss.
__________________
I believe in a better world, so I love Star Trek. I have to live in this one, so I love Battlestar Galactica.
USS KG5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 08:03 PM   #93
The Castellan
Commodore
 
The Castellan's Avatar
 
Location: The Plains of Cydonia
Send a message via Yahoo to The Castellan
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Lobbys need to go.
__________________
The meaning of the apocalypse is the opposite of what most people think. It does not mean the end of the world; it means the revealing of hidden secrets and the beginning of a heaven on earth. The apocalypse is starting now.
The Castellan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 08:24 PM   #94
Sector 7
Rear Admiral
 
Sector 7's Avatar
 
Location: McCrory/Hitler's Republic of North Carolina
Send a message via AIM to Sector 7
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

To those who have said that it is difficult to write scenes for gay characters, I say look to those scenes which depict "At Home with the O'Briens". My scene would have a male gay couple discussing the Red Alert situation over dinner or in the living room. One is a non-bridge science or engineering officer expressing his worry/fear for his husband who is a bridge/landing party officer. This is a topic which is universal for all military families, shows the gay couple in a "normal" family relationship and is relevant to the storyline of a dangerous anomaly/alien/situation.

It really isn't difficult to write for gay characters. We share many of the same concerns as hetero characters. IMHO, this is the way to introduce gay characters in Star Trek. No big deal, no pride parades, no reason for right wing phone calls... just a loving couple sharing the same stress as any other couple.

While Modern Family goes over the top for laughs, they DO depict a gay family sharing the same stress as any other family. Star Trek should do no less in dealing with gay characters.

I am gay. I have never walked in a parade (except in military uniform). I like NASCAR [Go #24!], Carolina Panthers football, ACC basketball [If God is a not Tarheel, why is the sky Carolina Blue?], raised a family, paid my bills and taxes... all the things regular folks do every day. I support marriage equality, decry discrimination in all its forms, vote in all elections and have a personal relationship with GOD. It would give me deep, heartfelt satisfaction to know that my Star Trek franchise includes me in its universe.
__________________
“When all Americans are treated as equal, no matter who they are or whom they love, we are all more free.” -Pres. Obama
"A great democracy does not make it harder to vote than to buy an assault weapon." -Pres. Clinton
Sector 7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 09:16 PM   #95
Nightdiamond
Fleet Captain
 
Nightdiamond's Avatar
 
Location: California
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Quark: We humanoids are the product of millions of years of evolution. Our ancestors learned the hard way that what you don't know might kill you.

They wouldn't have survived if they hadn't jumped back when they encountered a snake coiled in the muck. And now millions of years later, that instinct is still there.

It's genetic. Our tolerance for other lifeforms doesn't extend
beyond the two arm, two leg variety. I hate to break it to
you, but when you're in your natural state, you're more than our poor old genes can handle.

Watch your step, Odo. We're at war with your people. This is no time for a changeling pride demonstration on the Promenade.
Quark can say some insight stuff sometimes
Nightdiamond is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 09:31 PM   #96
Deks
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Except that I kinda like Odo in his 'natural' state.
Quark was full of it if you ask me and was mostly making a generalization.
Humans in Trek were supposed to be beyond such silly prejudice exactly because they have to expect a possibility of life that doesn't resemble the humanoid form and whatnot.

Janeway for example showed open-mindedness about that dark-matter entity that tried to communicate with them, only to be shot by a paranoid crewman who had no field experience (and for a scientist, he surely handled that situation poorly).
I can understand caution (and perhaps initial level of fear even) when dealing with new life-forms... but that was a very poor display.
__________________
We are who we choose to be but also have predefined aspects of our personalities we are born with, and make art that defines us.
Deks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 13 2012, 10:02 PM   #97
The Castellan
Commodore
 
The Castellan's Avatar
 
Location: The Plains of Cydonia
Send a message via Yahoo to The Castellan
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Deks wrote: View Post
Except that I kinda like Odo in his 'natural' state.
Quark was full of it if you ask me and was mostly making a generalization.
Humans in Trek were supposed to be beyond such silly prejudice exactly because they have to expect a possibility of life that doesn't resemble the humanoid form and whatnot.

Janeway for example showed open-mindedness about that dark-matter entity that tried to communicate with them, only to be shot by a paranoid crewman who had no field experience (and for a scientist, he surely handled that situation poorly).
I can understand caution (and perhaps initial level of fear even) when dealing with new life-forms... but that was a very poor display.
I digged he was a scientist, since it shows they are not the perfect folks some people think of them as.
__________________
The meaning of the apocalypse is the opposite of what most people think. It does not mean the end of the world; it means the revealing of hidden secrets and the beginning of a heaven on earth. The apocalypse is starting now.
The Castellan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2012, 12:22 AM   #98
teacake
Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Militant Janeway True Path Devotees Compound. With Sehlats.
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

USS KG5 wrote: View Post

When Trek did do gay storylines, like in Rejoined in DS9, it did cause an enormous fuss.
Did it? What was the fuss/response?
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2012, 07:46 AM   #99
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Along the border of Talarian space
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

teacake wrote: View Post
USS KG5 wrote: View Post

When Trek did do gay storylines, like in Rejoined in DS9, it did cause an enormous fuss.
Did it? What was the fuss/response?
On the boxset I have, Terry Farrell said that Avery Brooks (who directed the episode) focused on the fact that they couldn't be together because of the Symbionts previous relationship, not because they were both women.

I remember at the time before the episode aired ('came out' as it were ) that there was a lot of hype about the same sex kiss. Its things like that that annoy me, the media didn't whip everything up when Riker got his leg over.
__________________
Avatar: Captain Susanna Leijten, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron
Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2012, 07:49 AM   #100
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Along the border of Talarian space
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Sector 7 wrote: View Post
It really isn't difficult to write for gay characters. We share many of the same concerns as hetero characters. IMHO, this is the way to introduce gay characters in Star Trek. No big deal, no pride parades, no reason for right wing phone calls... just a loving couple sharing the same stress as any other couple.
Exactly as it should be done. When (and I'm not saying 'if') a gay character is included, before the series is released the creators, writers, actor, etc should say nothing about the character being gay, so that it isn't made a big thing.

Instead have a scene where they are shown to have a normal life with someone they love, whilst also following their career and doing their duty.
__________________
Avatar: Captain Susanna Leijten, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron
Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2012, 08:07 AM   #101
J. Allen
Dancing on Rainbows
 
J. Allen's Avatar
 
Location: United States
Send a message via ICQ to J. Allen Send a message via AIM to J. Allen Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to J. Allen Send a message via Yahoo to J. Allen
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Sector 7 wrote: View Post
To those who have said that it is difficult to write scenes for gay characters, I say look to those scenes which depict "At Home with the O'Briens". My scene would have a male gay couple discussing the Red Alert situation over dinner or in the living room. One is a non-bridge science or engineering officer expressing his worry/fear for his husband who is a bridge/landing party officer. This is a topic which is universal for all military families, shows the gay couple in a "normal" family relationship and is relevant to the storyline of a dangerous anomaly/alien/situation.

It really isn't difficult to write for gay characters. We share many of the same concerns as hetero characters. IMHO, this is the way to introduce gay characters in Star Trek. No big deal, no pride parades, no reason for right wing phone calls... just a loving couple sharing the same stress as any other couple.

While Modern Family goes over the top for laughs, they DO depict a gay family sharing the same stress as any other family. Star Trek should do no less in dealing with gay characters.

I am gay. I have never walked in a parade (except in military uniform). I like NASCAR [Go #24!], Carolina Panthers football, ACC basketball [If God is a not Tarheel, why is the sky Carolina Blue?], raised a family, paid my bills and taxes... all the things regular folks do every day. I support marriage equality, decry discrimination in all its forms, vote in all elections and have a personal relationship with GOD. It would give me deep, heartfelt satisfaction to know that my Star Trek franchise includes me in its universe.
I was one who said writing "gay scenes" would be difficult. I say this because outside of this wonderful forum, are lots of people who write scripts, who wouldn't even know where to begin. That's what I mean. To you and I, and many here, it's simple. It's easy, but for those folks (and they're all over the place. Look at a few years ago for an example of how gay people were written in TV shows), it's some kind of strange puzzle, and they just don't get it. It's a bit of a catch-22, really. Until people realize that it's no big deal for people of the same sex to be in love with one another, and that their love is just as real and heartfelt as any other love, folks aren't really going to understand. At the same time, without the ability to write shows with genuine, real gay people in real relationships, people won't really know that important fact.

Then you get the suits involved. Every once in a while you get someone who is willing to take a risk, but usually it's all about not offending the primary audience, which is usually males 25-50 years of age.
__________________
Visit us at Brony Kingdom!
You will never find a more precious hive of love and humility.
---------
"Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured." - Mark Twain
J. Allen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 14 2012, 07:31 PM   #102
Deks
Rear Admiral
 
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

The Castellan wrote: View Post
Deks wrote: View Post
Except that I kinda like Odo in his 'natural' state.
Quark was full of it if you ask me and was mostly making a generalization.
Humans in Trek were supposed to be beyond such silly prejudice exactly because they have to expect a possibility of life that doesn't resemble the humanoid form and whatnot.

Janeway for example showed open-mindedness about that dark-matter entity that tried to communicate with them, only to be shot by a paranoid crewman who had no field experience (and for a scientist, he surely handled that situation poorly).
I can understand caution (and perhaps initial level of fear even) when dealing with new life-forms... but that was a very poor display.
I digged he was a scientist, since it shows they are not the perfect folks some people think of them as.
They are not perfect... but we don't need 'scientists' shooting at things they know nothing about to know this - it's exactly why the rest of the creatures attacked them in response.
To that end, Janeway (and even the others) were different than Harem (who utterly lost it).

Besides, I'm sick of people constantly saying Trek characters are 'perfect'.
Hardly... they behave in a much more civil capacity and don't behave like immature brats like a lot of the general population does today.
It's refined behavior (and a lot better if you ask me).
Degrading them to early 21st century humans is degrading in it's own right.
__________________
We are who we choose to be but also have predefined aspects of our personalities we are born with, and make art that defines us.
Deks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2012, 05:49 AM   #103
Maurice
Vice Admiral
 
Maurice's Avatar
 
Location: Maurice in San Francisco
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

J. Allen wrote: View Post
I was one who said writing "gay scenes" would be difficult. I say this because outside of this wonderful forum, are lots of people who write scripts, who wouldn't even know where to begin.
There are plenty of Hollywood writers who've written gay characters—especially in recent years—who have no trouble doing it, and have done it for shows both on the air and already cancelled.
__________________
* * *
"If you wanted to get a good meeting... just go in and
say 'darker, grittier, sexier' and whatever."
—Glen Larson, 2010
Maurice is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2012, 05:56 AM   #104
Collingwood Nick
Vice Admiral
 
Collingwood Nick's Avatar
 
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

jpch wrote: View Post
so what do you guys think? would it be cool to have a gay couple?character?at least a gay episode?
Yes, but only if it's done right. Star Trek doesn't need a 'token' gay the way you get 'token' black guys or asians or other ethnics in other tv shows.

Like those advertisements you see for IT services or accountants or whatever thats shows a whole collection of individuals - a large black guy who is smiling, a woman usually asian who has glasses and is smiling, a young indian man who is smiling, a hot blonde woman who is smiling, and just to prove they are not reverse racist a weedy white guy who looks like a nerd and is smiling. Because everyone knows that large corporations are run by ethnically diverse smiling people who are young and trendy, not old white men.

What I am trying to say is Trek needs a character who is gay, not a gay character, if you follow me
__________________
"I will never coach against my boys"
Collingwood Nick
Collingwood Nick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 16 2012, 07:17 AM   #105
Bry_Sinclair
Commodore
 
Bry_Sinclair's Avatar
 
Location: Along the border of Talarian space
Re: Star Trek and Homosexuality

Collingwood Nick wrote: View Post
What I am trying to say is Trek needs a character who is gay, not a gay character, if you follow me
Makes perfect sense to me, and I totally agree that is how it should be done as well.

Collingwood Nick wrote: View Post
Yes, but only if it's done right. Star Trek doesn't need a 'token' gay the way you get 'token' black guys or asians or other ethnics in other tv shows.
What about Mayweather? Wasn't his only purpose on ENT to be the 'black cast member'?
__________________
Avatar: Captain Susanna Leijten, U.S.S. Silverfin NCC-4470, Border Service Third Cutter Squadron
Manip by: FltCpt. Bossco (STPMA)
Bry_Sinclair is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
gay, sulu

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:33 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.