RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,958
Posts: 5,480,226
Members: 25,057
Currently online: 560
Newest member: Ghost_of_Bubba

TrekToday headlines

USS Enterprise Press-Out And Build Manual
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

New QMx USS Reliant Model
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Star Trek Thirty-Five Years On 35MM: A Retrospective
By: T'Bonz on Nov 28

Trek Shirt And Hoodie
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

A Klingon Christmas Carol’s Last Season
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

Attack Wing Wave 10 Expansion Pack
By: T'Bonz on Nov 27

New Star Trek Funko Pop! Vinyl Figures
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

QMx Mini Phaser Ornament
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Stewart as Neo-Nazi Skinhead
By: T'Bonz on Nov 26

Klingon Bloodwine To Debut
By: T'Bonz on Nov 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 11 2012, 05:31 PM   #331
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
I don't know, but I have my doubts that Seven of Nine merchandise really sold at such a high clip over that of other characters and that she was a success in that way to the studio. My guess would be that she ultimately turned out to be kind of a disappointment for them in terns of the impact she had. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
Very wrong. Seven of Nine was many variations of action figure. Half-Borgified (as in "The Gift"), Silver-suited, Plum-suited and Blue-suited, all in the 4.5" size, cloth-dressed figures in both 9" (Brown-suited and Silver-suited) and 12" (Silver), plus a Hallmark ornament and even coldcast statues and a life-size mannequin.

Kes only got a short-packed 4.5" figure.

Even Janeway only got one regular 4.5", one "Flashback" exclusive (designed by me for NewForce Comics), one 9" figure and a Hallmark ornament.

teacake wrote: View Post
Where is all this wondrous 7 merchandise and why do I not own it.
Seven:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...at=0&_from=R40

Kes:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...at=0&_from=R40

Lynx wrote: View Post
Maybe the money from the merchandise (if it was som much that some people believe) could have been used to keep ten main characters in the show.
So Playmates and Hallmark should subsidize an actor's salary and not sell any toys or ornaments?


I'm "very wrong?" You're point isn't a refutation of mine. I wasn't questioning the amount or variety of 7 of 9 merchandise, I was questioning the SALES numbers. So unless you have figures that show that there was a huge jump in AMOUNT of 7 of 9 action figures and other merchandise I'll retain my skepticism.

I think the percentage of the fanbase that are hard-core collectors isn't a big one(For example, Star Trek XI was a huge box-office hit but the action figure line didn't do well).

So again I inquire: any figures on 7 of 9 merchandise sales? We've already seen that the ratings impact was negligible, I'm guessing that we see the same thing here.
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11 2012, 05:50 PM   #332
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Well I don't really care about the merchandising issue. The fact is Seven of Nine was a great character and one of Voyager's only real success stories. I wouldn't say she was the main reason for the quality improvement post season 3 however since the writers did seem to be getting their act together at the end of season 3.
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11 2012, 11:34 PM   #333
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Well I don't really care about the merchandising issue. The fact is Seven of Nine was a great character and one of Voyager's only real success stories. I wouldn't say she was the main reason for the quality improvement post season 3 however since the writers did seem to be getting their act together at the end of season 3.

I don't think Seven was a bad character. I just don't think it was necessary to drop Kes for her, I don't think Voyager should have become the "Seven of Nine show" it often did in later seasons, and I think Seven should have worn a real uniform or at least something less ridiculous.
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 11 2012, 11:50 PM   #334
doubleohfive
Fleet Admiral
 
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Lynx wrote: View Post
doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
^^
It didn't.
Speculation.



Your (subjective) opinion.

Maybe the money from the merchandise (if it was som much that some people believe) could have been used to keep ten main characters in the show.
And this basically Godwin's the thread with your basic, fundamental lack of understanding about how television series budgeting operates.
On the contrary, I know a lot about showbiz since I've worked in the business myself, although most in the musical spectrum of it
Note my previous post. I said "fundamental lack of understanding about how television series budgeting operates."

That's far and away a completely different ballgame than the music business. In short - there's more to consider when reviewing the point you raised (and to which I was replying) when mapping out the budget for how many regular cast members you'll have. Raking it in in merchandising does not necessarily imply that even if there is enough cash to go around, it will absolutely be reallocated toward paying an actress her salary to stick around. Television is a huge, monstrous machine with a thousand mouths to feed, not just Jennifer Lien's.
doubleohfive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 02:36 AM   #335
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
I don't know, but I have my doubts that Seven of Nine merchandise really sold at such a high clip over that of other characters and that she was a success in that way to the studio. My guess would be that she ultimately turned out to be kind of a disappointment for them in terns of the impact she had. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
Very wrong. Seven of Nine was many variations of action figure. Half-Borgified (as in "The Gift"), Silver-suited, Plum-suited and Blue-suited, all in the 4.5" size, cloth-dressed figures in both 9" (Brown-suited and Silver-suited) and 12" (Silver), plus a Hallmark ornament and even coldcast statues and a life-size mannequin.

Kes only got a short-packed 4.5" figure.

Even Janeway only got one regular 4.5", one "Flashback" exclusive (designed by me for NewForce Comics), one 9" figure and a Hallmark ornament.



Seven:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...at=0&_from=R40

Kes:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...at=0&_from=R40

Lynx wrote: View Post
Maybe the money from the merchandise (if it was som much that some people believe) could have been used to keep ten main characters in the show.
So Playmates and Hallmark should subsidize an actor's salary and not sell any toys or ornaments?


I'm "very wrong?" You're point isn't a refutation of mine. I wasn't questioning the amount or variety of 7 of 9 merchandise, I was questioning the SALES numbers. So unless you have figures that show that there was a huge jump in AMOUNT of 7 of 9 action figures and other merchandise I'll retain my skepticism.

I think the percentage of the fanbase that are hard-core collectors isn't a big one(For example, Star Trek XI was a huge box-office hit but the action figure line didn't do well).

So again I inquire: any figures on 7 of 9 merchandise sales? We've already seen that the ratings impact was negligible, I'm guessing that we see the same thing here.
Then you must be the only Trek fan living under a rock not to know that Playmates Trek action figure line was one of the most highly collectable toy lines to date as well as WIZARD: Toy Fair magazine, the second top rated toy collectable magazine among collectors carried an exclusive Seven of Nine action figure that sold out. Seven of Nine's success of being such a highly collectable item was featured in such shows as the Simpsons, Dilbert, Reaper and even Simon Pegg's UK series Spaced. How do you figure the collector market is small when a major majority of Trek fans own some form of Trek merchandise? You already acknowledged she was a pop icon, so how can she be one and not have well selling product? How are all these sources in the media aware of this and you being a Trek fan, aren't?
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

Last edited by exodus; March 12 2012 at 02:48 AM.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 03:09 AM   #336
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Adult toy collectors are mostly deranged perverts, and the toys the industry generates for these perverts are fr the most part debased... I used to sell this shit for a living in a comic book store.

They got troubles.

Children's toys from children's toy stores are sweet and innocent and this market should be about ten thousand times larger at least, from what you're going to find in a specialty shop...

I remember seeing Star Trek toys in the toys shops back int he 80s for about 5 minutes.

Compared to GI Joe and Transformers, who just won't die, Star Trek is a drop int he bucket.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 04:21 AM   #337
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I don't remember seeing a Seven of Nine figurine in the Simpsons, just someone dressed up as her
Edit- also, what exactly is this argument about now?
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 05:03 AM   #338
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 07:12 AM   #339
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
I was questioning the SALES numbers. So unless you have figures that show that there was a huge jump in AMOUNT of 7 of 9 action figures and other merchandise I'll retain my skepticism.
Of course Playmates (and Pocket Books) don't release such figures. We can only judge by the fact that Playmates made sure there was a Seven of Nine figure in almost every wave after she joined the cast of VOY. The Seven of Nine figure exclusives in the toy mags caused those issues to sell out.

I think the percentage of the fanbase that are hard-core collectors isn't a big one(For example, Star Trek XI was a huge box-office hit but the action figure line didn't do well).
Because most fans said they were poorly made.

So again I inquire: any figures on 7 of 9 merchandise sales? We've already seen that the ratings impact was negligible, I'm guessing that we see the same thing here.
If the sales were poor, they'd have stopped making Sevens after the first one.

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
I particularily like the "Your appeal to my humanity is pointless" Tshirt and the "I (borg cube) Seven of Nine" gym bag.
Keep in mind that Cafe Press stuff is unlicensed.

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
I don't remember seeing a Seven of Nine figurine in the Simpsons, just someone dressed up as her
Yes, the packaged figure is in the episode with Xena vs Comic Shop Guy.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Therin of Andor; March 12 2012 at 07:25 AM. Reason: more
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 07:55 AM   #340
You_Will_Fail
Fleet Captain
 
You_Will_Fail's Avatar
 
Location: Trill, Federation World and Proud
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Ok so Seven merchandise was popular among collectors...what's the point being made here, why is this thread still going..?
__________________
My 30 Favorite Star Trek Episodes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7U4y_sR7l7Y
My 15 Favorite Star Trek Characters
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofz1Zbpkxys
You_Will_Fail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 08:03 AM   #341
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

It's a thread about the death of Kes and exactly WHO is on the grassy knoll. It will never end.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 08:07 AM   #342
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Ok so Seven merchandise was popular among collectors...what's the point being made here, why is this thread still going..?
The success of Seven merchandise supports the line of thought that switching Jeri Ryan for Jennifer Lien was a sensible move.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 08:25 AM   #343
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

(SQUEE!)

You're forgetting how children's toys are sold.

Sealed boxes arrive at the store from the factory. The toys inside the box are not evenly distributed, they're proportionately distributed. Rares, middles, and commons, meaning that for every 10 kes, there will be 5 Janeways and one Seven of Nine in any one box of Star Trek Toys. If the shop wants 10 Seven of Nines, they have to buy 100 kes dolls.

What the hell is a baseball memorabilia shop in the boondocks going to do with 5 score Kes action figures on any day other than the fourth of July.

Detroit Rock City could have a field day with a Kes Army.

Speciality shops however buy collectible toys in full sets. No rarity or imposed scarcity, but because it's all made to order, it's a smaller line and therefore greater cost per unit to generate a smaller proportional profit.

Screw your passion.

If you want to make money, just sell cigarettes and whiskey.

(If however your passion just happens to be cigarettes and whiskey, kudos & mazel tov)
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 09:22 AM   #344
Starbreaker
Fleet Admiral
 
Starbreaker's Avatar
 
Location: Chattanooga, TN
View Starbreaker's Twitter Profile
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Stephen! wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
but the studio said no to having ten regular cast members.
Ah, so that's presumably why DS9 was allowed to have Worf, since there was initially only eight regulars.
Somebody may have answered this in the next couple of pages, but I'm not going to wade through everything. Worf was brought over to DS9 to get the TNG fanbase to keep watching Star Trek after TNG went off the air.
__________________
Currently Reading: The Martian by Andy Weir
Currently Watching: The Walking Dead, Doctor Who, CSI, Criminal Minds, NCIS, NCIS:NO, Law & Order: SVU, Stalker, American Horror Story, and Bones
Starbreaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 12 2012, 09:28 AM   #345
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
(SQUEE!)
Sealed boxes arrive at the store from the factory. The toys inside the box are not evenly distributed, they're proportionately distributed. Rares, middles, and commons, meaning that for every 10 kes, there will be 5 Janeways and one Seven of Nine in any one box of Star Trek Toys. If the shop wants 10 Seven of Nines, they have to buy 100 kes dolls.
Actually, Kes and Janeway were relative shortpacks in the first VOY wave. That's why my "Flashback Janeway" exclusive won the NewForce competition, because lots of people wanted Janeway and, being a captain, she was very hard to find.

By the time all the Sevens came along, the waves were a mixture of all ST series - and more evenly packed.

Starbreaker wrote: View Post
Worf was brought over to DS9 to get the TNG fanbase to keep watching Star Trek after TNG went off the air.
Yep, but only if it didn't prevent him from doing TNG movies and the makeup time could be reduced.

And as long as they didn't make him wear that silver catsuit and stilettos.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
kes, kim, lien

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:18 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.