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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old March 10 2012, 01:34 PM   #301
teacake
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I don't think "Pollyanna" OR "Barbarella" are complete negatives. Some people very much like those archetypes.
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Old March 10 2012, 02:25 PM   #302
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I love the parent trap almost as much as Barbarella.

They did a remake a couple years back, and the little girl playing the twins, you can tell that she's going to grow up to be something really special.
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Old March 10 2012, 09:15 PM   #303
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
she's going to grow up to be something really special.
As in "Special Victims Unit?"


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Old March 11 2012, 04:29 AM   #304
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
your posts on this seem to be "whatever the writers/producers say is right and good enough for me."
Yep. I've heard enough inside stories, from people who were actually there, to believe that what the creative team said they felt to be true, at least at the time, is true. These things are not decided on a whim, usually. Hollywood is big business and no one likes to get it wrong.

Jeri Ryan was a breath of fresh air for the franchise. A revitalised Kes was not going to have the same spike of interest.

Lynx wrote: View Post
Besides that, if Lien had been a pain in the @** for her co-workers...
When did I ever say that? I said that the writers were disappointed with the character and, despite numerous attempts to steer the character in very different directions, over three seasons, they were still unhappy with Kes.

Tales about Lien being a difficult person are pure speculation.
No, I know people who had to attempt to explain her bizarre actions at a convention to some very angry fans, who'd travelled interstate to see her. She's a very shy woman who continued to attempt to do conventions, even though she'd realised she was unsuited to that method of public speaking. And yet she kept accepting invitations.
Agreed on all counts.
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Old March 11 2012, 04:43 AM   #305
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Revitalize is not the same as changed, and the ratings seem to say that she didn't increase ratings, they still steadily fell despite her amazing ta-tas...

She did nothing.

Jennifer was fired for a dog that wouldn't hunt.

agreed. I checked the ratings, and other than a VERY brief bump, they continued their pattern of slow decline and/or held steady. So yeah, she made pop culture a little more aware of Voyager perhaps, but she wasn't bringing in the big ratings.
Star trek is more than just a TV show in modern times. It's a global merchandising business. What they didn't get in ratings, they made up for in selling her image. Paramount made a fortune off of toys, t-shirts, video games, magazines due to her image. Being a house hold name in pop culture equals $$$$. I wouldn't doubt what they lost in ratings based TV, they made up for in merchandising. How much Voyager merchandise with her image on it did a tourist trap Star Trek Experience alone sell?
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Old March 11 2012, 05:20 AM   #306
sonak
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

exodus wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Revitalize is not the same as changed, and the ratings seem to say that she didn't increase ratings, they still steadily fell despite her amazing ta-tas...

She did nothing.

Jennifer was fired for a dog that wouldn't hunt.

agreed. I checked the ratings, and other than a VERY brief bump, they continued their pattern of slow decline and/or held steady. So yeah, she made pop culture a little more aware of Voyager perhaps, but she wasn't bringing in the big ratings.
Star trek is more than just a TV show in modern times. It's a global merchandising business. What they didn't get in ratings, they made up for in selling her image. Paramount made a fortune off of toys, t-shirts, video games, magazines due to her image. Being a house hold name in pop culture equals $$$$. I wouldn't doubt what they lost in ratings based TV, they made up for in merchandising. How much Voyager merchandise with her image on it did a tourist trap Star Trek Experience alone sell?
I don't know, but I have my doubts that Seven of Nine merchandise really sold at such a high clip over that of other characters and that she was a success in that way to the studio. My guess would be that she ultimately turned out to be kind of a disappointment for them in terns of the impact she had. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
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Old March 11 2012, 08:09 AM   #307
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

^^
It didn't.

And even if it had, it was wrong to dump Kes and fire Lien. Maybe the money from the merchandise (if it was som much that some people believe) could have been used to keep ten main characters in the show.
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Old March 11 2012, 08:11 AM   #308
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Lynx wrote: View Post
^^
It didn't.
Speculation.

And even if it had, it was wrong to dump Kes and fire Lien.
Your (subjective) opinion.

Maybe the money from the merchandise (if it was som much that some people believe) could have been used to keep ten main characters in the show.
And this basically Godwin's the thread with your basic, fundamental lack of understanding about how television series budgeting operates.
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Old March 11 2012, 08:14 AM   #309
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Where is all this wondrous 7 merchandise and why do I not own it.
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Old March 11 2012, 08:17 AM   #310
Therin of Andor
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
I don't know, but I have my doubts that Seven of Nine merchandise really sold at such a high clip over that of other characters and that she was a success in that way to the studio. My guess would be that she ultimately turned out to be kind of a disappointment for them in terns of the impact she had. Maybe I'm wrong, though.
Very wrong. Seven of Nine was many variations of action figure. Half-Borgified (as in "The Gift"), Silver-suited, Plum-suited and Blue-suited, all in the 4.5" size, cloth-dressed figures in both 9" (Brown-suited and Silver-suited) and 12" (Silver), plus a Hallmark ornament and even coldcast statues and a life-size mannequin.

Kes only got a short-packed 4.5" figure.

Even Janeway only got one regular 4.5", one "Flashback" exclusive (designed by me for NewForce Comics), one 9" figure and a Hallmark ornament.

teacake wrote: View Post
Where is all this wondrous 7 merchandise and why do I not own it.
Seven:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...at=0&_from=R40

Kes:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=...at=0&_from=R40

Lynx wrote: View Post
Maybe the money from the merchandise (if it was som much that some people believe) could have been used to keep ten main characters in the show.
So Playmates and Hallmark should subsidize an actor's salary and not sell any toys or ornaments?
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Old March 11 2012, 08:20 AM   #311
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Which is all well and good in action figure land, but let's be realistic - merchandising is not limited to action figures and toys alone.
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Old March 11 2012, 08:31 AM   #312
Therin of Andor
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

doubleohfive wrote: View Post
Which is all well and good in action figure land, but let's be realistic - merchandising is not limited to action figures and toys alone.
I can keep going.

There were also Seven of Nine Halloween costumes, makeup sets, and mugs, posters, trading cards, and numerous featured roles in comics and novels. And a giant cardboard standee.

By contrast, Kes made it on the cover of two(?) original Pocket novels, and one was as a glowing figure after she'd left the series.
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Last edited by Therin of Andor; March 11 2012 at 08:40 AM. Reason: typo
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Old March 11 2012, 08:36 AM   #313
teacake
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Yeah like toasters, I would kill for a 7 of 9 toaster.
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Old March 11 2012, 08:38 AM   #314
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I wouldn't challenge Therin on the merchandise knowledge front, LOL
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Old March 11 2012, 09:50 AM   #315
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Do THAT many people buy merchandise though? And was there really that many people who suddenly decided to start buying merchandise because of Seven of Nine who weren't buying the merchandise before? I'm not trying to say Seven wasn't beneficial to Voyager in terms of publicity and some merchandise (if not ratings) but I find it hard to believe the merchandise would be THAT lucrative.
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