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Old March 9 2012, 12:30 AM   #61
Lindley
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Lynx wrote: View Post
As for Rise Like Lions, please tell me more about it. I might read it, but not if there are any "Fury"-scenario crap in it.
Haven't read it yet, but I understand it's the culmination of the Mirror Universe storyline that's been woven through several of the other lines including the DS9 Relaunch. I vaguely recall Kes having a role in one of the MU anthology stories (Obsidian Alliances I think), so maybe it follows on from that.

As for the current books, well I would rather see Tuvok on Voyager and what I know, Neelix's appearance in the recent Voyager books is only a "guest appearance", not to mention the fact that Janeway is still missing.
I don't particularly expect you to relent on these issues; you've been dogging the Kes issue far too long for that. But I think even you can acknowledge that you can't give an informed opinion on the quality of the books without reading them. At best, you can express your disinterest in finding out.
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Old March 9 2012, 07:52 PM   #62
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

^^
I admit that you do have a point there.

I also admit that those books might be well-written with some good stories as well.

But knowing myself rather well, I don't think that I would appreciate the stories in those books due to the changes in the crew which have taken place.

Which is a reason that I look for Star Trek books where I'm definitely sure that Janeway's death and other unpleasant events won't be mentioned at all.
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Old March 9 2012, 11:02 PM   #63
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Lynx wrote: View Post
^^
I admit that you do have a point there.

I also admit that those books might be well-written with some good stories as well.

But knowing myself rather well, I don't think that I would appreciate the stories in those books due to the changes in the crew which have taken place.

Which is a reason that I look for Star Trek books where I'm definitely sure that Janeway's death and other unpleasant events won't be mentioned at all.
I'm pretty sure Janeway will return at some point. If and when that happens would you read the 'catch up' books then ?
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Old March 10 2012, 12:02 PM   #64
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
^^
I admit that you do have a point there.

I also admit that those books might be well-written with some good stories as well.

But knowing myself rather well, I don't think that I would appreciate the stories in those books due to the changes in the crew which have taken place.

Which is a reason that I look for Star Trek books where I'm definitely sure that Janeway's death and other unpleasant events won't be mentioned at all.
I'm pretty sure Janeway will return at some point. If and when that happens would you read the 'catch up' books then ?
Maybe. You'll never know. Nothing is impossible.

Depends on which way she's brought back and the general development of the ongoing story.

But remember that I did start watching Voyager again after a two-year pause caused by the events in "The Gift". I borrowed VHS tapes to catch up with the ongoing story. Unfortunately, my "reward" for that was "Fury" so I'm a bit careful now.
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Old March 12 2012, 01:51 AM   #65
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

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But I think even you can acknowledge that you can't give an informed opinion on the quality of the books without reading them. At best, you can express your disinterest in finding out.
But that isn't the point; no one has said the any of the books since Before Dishonor were badly written. What they have said is that we do not have any interest in reading books set after Janeway's death because we don't want her dead. That is a criticism of the "direction" of Trek Lit not a criticism of the writing and we do have the right to express our displeasure over the "direction" of Trek Literature without reading anything first.
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Old March 12 2012, 03:12 AM   #66
Lindley
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

I'm not too thrilled with it either, but I think it's silly to rule out any storyline just because it takes a risk you don't like. Sometimes people die when you would rather they didn't. Exploring that is a valid literary option. I wasn't happy when Star Wars killed Chewbacca either, but the line continued and there were some good stories as a result.

My biggest complaint wasn't with the decision to kill Janeway, it was with the manner in which it was done. It just didn't work very well. At least Chewy got to go out with dignity.
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Old March 12 2012, 06:29 AM   #67
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Brit wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
But I think even you can acknowledge that you can't give an informed opinion on the quality of the books without reading them. At best, you can express your disinterest in finding out.
But that isn't the point; no one has said the any of the books since Before Dishonor were badly written. What they have said is that we do not have any interest in reading books set after Janeway's death because we don't want her dead. That is a criticism of the "direction" of Trek Lit not a criticism of the writing and we do have the right to express our displeasure over the "direction" of Trek Literature without reading anything first.
Exactly my point too.

As for Voyager books, I love the season 1-3 books (read my mostly positive comments about them at the Kes Website)and some of the early relaunch books were acceptable, if not as good as the season 1-3 books.
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Old March 12 2012, 06:42 AM   #68
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Lindley wrote: View Post
I'm not too thrilled with it either, but I think it's silly to rule out any storyline just because it takes a risk you don't like. Sometimes people die when you would rather they didn't. Exploring that is a valid literary option. I wasn't happy when Star Wars killed Chewbacca either, but the line continued and there were some good stories as a result.

My biggest complaint wasn't with the decision to kill Janeway, it was with the manner in which it was done. It just didn't work very well. At least Chewy got to go out with dignity.
If it had been a great book, written by KRAD or Swallow perhaps, I may not have been outraged over her death. If her death had made me cry rather than literally throw the book across the room in disgust I may not have been boycotting Treklit. I would still want her to return and would be harping on whatever sci fi element made that possible but the anger wouldn't be there.
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Old March 12 2012, 02:49 PM   #69
Lindley
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Fortunately, the follow-ons to Before Dishonor have been better-written. I usually like Peter David but he really messed up there.
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Old March 12 2012, 03:47 PM   #70
AuntKate
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Relayer1 wrote: View Post
Lynx wrote: View Post
^^
I admit that you do have a point there.

I also admit that those books might be well-written with some good stories as well.

But knowing myself rather well, I don't think that I would appreciate the stories in those books due to the changes in the crew which have taken place.

Which is a reason that I look for Star Trek books where I'm definitely sure that Janeway's death and other unpleasant events won't be mentioned at all.
I'm pretty sure Janeway will return at some point. If and when that happens would you read the 'catch up' books then ?
Not only would I read them, I would buy them new from Amazon rather than find them cheap at a used book outlet.
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Old March 12 2012, 03:51 PM   #71
AuntKate
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

teacake wrote: View Post
Lindley wrote: View Post
I'm not too thrilled with it either, but I think it's silly to rule out any storyline just because it takes a risk you don't like. Sometimes people die when you would rather they didn't. Exploring that is a valid literary option. I wasn't happy when Star Wars killed Chewbacca either, but the line continued and there were some good stories as a result.

My biggest complaint wasn't with the decision to kill Janeway, it was with the manner in which it was done. It just didn't work very well. At least Chewy got to go out with dignity.
If it had been a great book, written by KRAD or Swallow perhaps, I may not have been outraged over her death. If her death had made me cry rather than literally throw the book across the room in disgust I may not have been boycotting Treklit. I would still want her to return and would be harping on whatever sci fi element made that possible but the anger wouldn't be there.
I've read portions of "Before Dishonor." I didn't recognize the character as Janeway. She was more of a caricature, with little or nothing in common with the captain who was cautious enough to get Voyager across the Delta Quadrant in one piece. We've had discussions about how characters behave and how their tendencies lead them in certain directions. What Janeway did in "Before Dishonor" is totally out of character and a disservice to a fine Trek captain. I think that PB's foolish adherence to this novel's actions is what has made me maddest of all. Admit that it was a mistake and poorly done. Bring her back and let Beyer restore her to the person we know and admired. And do it sooner rather than later.
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Old March 12 2012, 05:32 PM   #72
F. King Daniel
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

The reasons for Janeway doing what she did in "Before Dishonor" are explored (retconned?) in "Full Circle", quite effectively.

That said, Janeway was all over the place in Voyager. I didn't find her actions in BD any more OOC than "Night" or "Equinox"
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Old March 18 2012, 01:59 PM   #73
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
The reasons for Janeway doing what she did in "Before Dishonor" are explored (retconned?) in "Full Circle", quite effectively.

That said, Janeway was all over the place in Voyager. I didn't find her actions in BD any more OOC than "Night" or "Equinox"
I've read "Full Circle", and yes Kirsten Beyer gave a different spin on Janeway's death, but murder is murder and it looks to me like Batiste along with a very gullible Montgomery actually forced her to go out to the super cube with no Starfleet back up. They are still responsible, and one wonders, considering Batiste's story line, if he deliberately set her up to die, and given the story line she wouldn't have been the first Starfleet officer he arranged to disappear when they got in his way.

And by the way I too will order brand new copies of Kirsten's books if Janeway is brought back, but I will probably keep my used copies as I have the canon mistakes, errors, and plot holes marked.
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