Star Trek Online Discussion Thread (now free to play!)

[Timelord_Victorious]

Rocketeer wrote:

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If another Tac player sees you mixing energy weapon types, they will chastise you to hell.

None of my chars use Engine or Shield Batts. Engrs and Tac use Weapon Batts, Sci uses Aux Batts. If you have any of these devices, I recommend using: Red Matter Capacitor (from Collector's Ed), Enhanced Plasma Manifold (from Oberth), Subspace Field Modulator (Devidian FE).

I would not put a torp on the rear unless you were planning to do flyovers. In that case, it would probably be a tricobalt mine.

My Tac officers use turrets for aft weapons. Phasers or AP with [Acc].

I'd replace the Bio module with something else.

I don't see any cannons on your ship, so ditch the Prefire Chamber. Get a Directed Energy Distributed Manifold or if you go with a single energy type get the appropiate console.

.

Some other stuff you can dump into the device consoles are the Scorpion Fighters from The Vault, deployable weapon turrets from doff missions and deuterium surplus from that daily near K7 station. The deuterium is probably better then engine batteries because they don't share a cooldown with other batteries and the red matter capacitor and Enhanced Plasma Manifold to get out auf tight situations quickly.

[Trek]

Personally I'd like to see the ship tiers revamped like this:

Proposal:
http://www.suricatafx.com/wp-content...er_Changes.jpg

Discussed here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=257999

I think that would solve most (if not all) the problems you raised Timelord_Victorious.

[Timelord_Victorious]

Trek wrote:

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Personally I'd like to see the ship tiers revamped like this:

Proposal:
http://www.suricatafx.com/wp-content...er_Changes.jpg

Discussed here:
http://forums.startrekonline.com/sho...d.php?t=257999

I think that would solve most (if not all) the problems you raised Timelord_Victorious.

Interesting concept.

I thought up another one, where BO layout is determined by swappable bridge modules that can go on any ship.
base stats like speed, hull and powerlevel by the ship itself and modifiers by skills and gear.
i don't have a fance HD spreadsheet, though.

[Captain_Amasov]

Something just occurred to me; with the set bonus from these consoles, do you think they'll do the same with the upcoming Galaxy ship pack? You have the cloaking device (Tac) from the Galaxy-X; the saucer separation (Eng) from the Galaxy; and the antimatter spread (Sci) from the Venture.

Oh, and a shot of the Bortas bridge: http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3...asbridge01.jpg

Wonder if this means we can see parts of the Odyssey outside its bridge windows too.

[Timelord_Victorious]

Captain_Amasov wrote:

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Something just occurred to me; with the set bonus from these consoles, do you think they'll do the same with the upcoming Galaxy ship pack? You have the cloaking device (Tac) from the Galaxy-X; the saucer separation (Eng) from the Galaxy; and the antimatter spread (Sci) from the Venture.

Oh, and a shot of the Bortas bridge: http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3...asbridge01.jpg

Wonder if this means we can see parts of the Odyssey outside its bridge windows too.

Would certainly give the Galaxy Class a bit of it's appeal back among players.

[Captain_Amasov]

They seem to be heading towards dilithium mining, what with a "mining event" listed on the calendar and doff missions revolving around it; would now be a bad time to suggest some sort of dilithium-based ship upgrade system?

[intrinsical]

Maybe its just me, but isn't this game set 30-40 years after Voyager? Technology has advanced and the latest greatest ships should be based around completely new ship classes.

That is why I sort of like the current way ship tiers are setup so that our favorite ships like the Constitution, Galaxy, Defiant, Intrepid are mostly Cmdr to Captain level ships. My personal opinion is that it would be best if non of our favorite ship classes, not even retrofits, are VA level ships.

[CorporalClegg]

intrinsical wrote:

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I don't care about PvP. So for me, its only P2W when Cryptic starts coming up with new STFs that require an Odyssey or Bortas to win.

It will start with PvP but it's only a matter of time before it spills over into PvE. And it won't be Cryptic driving it, per say, but players.

Eventually, it will get to the point where it will become a sort of unwritten rule for pugs and pre-made pugs. That will slowly snowball into a disaster.

But even that doesn't matter because people will inevitably fall in line. People may not call themselves, min/maxers, but anyone who has ever participated in endgame content in any MMO is to some degree.

Everybody has at some point browsed the interwebz for new build ideas to help them in whatever endgame they're trying to conquer. Those ideas always begin with min/maxers.

And there's also always a key, theme element to them. Yesterday, for example, it was an MVAM. Tomorrow it will be an Odyssey. The former was not nearly as ubiquitous because the advantage it gave over other ships was no where near as obvious. With the latter, however, it eventually going to get to the point EVERY endgame build is an Odyssey. And people will eventually fall in line to the point where at least four ships in any random pug are one.

But I think the more important issue is that this shows Cryptic isn't really satisfied with the pay = vanity model, and once they get a taste, they're going to go nuts. Book it.

I can almost guarantee that it won't belong before the next gear set comes out that will be significantly better than the MACO/OMEGA, and dilithium will be required to buy it.

It will be such an obscene amount of dilithium that 8k grind a day just isn't going to cut it. People will have all the tech they need in their banks, but not the dilithium, so they'll get out their credit cards.

It's a slippery slope that I've happened to see the worst of. Cryptic just grabbed the toboggan.

Timelord_Victorious wrote:

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Interesting concept.

I thought up another one, where BO layout is determined by swappable bridge modules that can go on any ship.
base stats like speed, hull and powerlevel by the ship itself and modifiers by skills and gear.
i don't have a fance HD spreadsheet, though.

It's an interesting idea, but I think even more complicated than it has to be.

Simply make it so that you ship stats are determined by captain class, ship class, and rank and then make all BO slots universal in the cmdr, ltc, lt, lt, ens layout.

They could even through in the XO mechanic they've been talking about forever to add a little variety. You'd then have four variables that determine ship's "stats" with a lot of different skins flying around.

I also think they should make the special consoles class specific, but whatever.

[J. Allen]

Timelord_Victorious wrote:

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Depends...

What is your primary intention? Having as much firepower as possible or becoming nearly unkillable?

Defense is more important to me than offense. Some of these PvPers are amazing. I've seen ships take continuous, sustained fire from half a dozen ships and almost shrug it off like it was nothing. I remember one ship, about 3 weeks back, that I saw in Ker'rat (A KDF BOP), that just couldn't be killed. 7 ships attacked him straight on, and his shields would fluctuate for a second, and never drop. That went on for a good 30 seconds, by which he then just hauled ass out of range in about 3 seconds.

Rocketeer wrote:

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If another Tac player sees you mixing energy weapon types, they will chastise you to hell.

Really? Why is that? I've had a fair bit of luck mixing phaser and polaron beam arrays.

None of my chars use Engine or Shield Batts. Engrs and Tac use Weapon Batts, Sci uses Aux Batts. If you have any of these devices, I recommend using: Red Matter Capacitor (from Collector's Ed), Enhanced Plasma Manifold (from Oberth), Subspace Field Modulator (Devidian FE).

I would not put a torp on the rear unless you were planning to do flyovers. In that case, it would probably be a tricobalt mine.

I do a number of flyovers. I'll use Torpedo Yield III as I come in fast (not on Full Impulse, though), and as I pass overhead, I'll give them one to grow on.

My Tac officers use turrets for aft weapons. Phasers or AP with [Acc].

I'd replace the Bio module with something else.

I don't see any cannons on your ship, so ditch the Prefire Chamber. Get a Directed Energy Distributed Manifold or if you go with a single energy type get the appropiate console.

.

Will do on that. I don't know why I kept the prefire chamber anyway.

[Captain_Amasov]

There's also the issue of them still thinking about raising the level cap to "Fleet Admiral" and the introduction of tier 6 ships. At some point all of the current tier 5's are going to become obsolete, most likely attractive replaced with C-store ones.

Between that and what Dan said about FE's recently, there's going to be an even bigger shit storm to come.

[intrinsical]

CorporalClegg wrote:

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It will start with PvP but it's only a matter of time before it spills over into PvE. And it won't be Cryptic driving it, per say, but players.

Eventually, it will get to the point where it will become a sort of unwritten rule for pugs and pre-made pugs. That will slowly snowball into a disaster.

But even that doesn't matter because people will inevitably fall in line. People may not call themselves, min/maxers, but anyone who has ever participated in endgame content in any MMO is to some degree.

Everybody has at some point browsed the interwebz for new build ideas to help them in whatever endgame they're trying to conquer. Those ideas always begin with min/maxers.

And there's also always a key, theme element to them. Yesterday, for example, it was an MVAM. Tomorrow it will be an Odyssey. The former was not nearly as ubiquitous because the advantage it gave over other ships was no where near as obvious. With the latter, however, it eventually going to get to the point EVERY endgame build is an Odyssey. And people will eventually fall in line to the point where at least four ships in any random pug are one.

There has and will always be FOTM builds. And they're just that - current favorites and they change with time. I really don't see any connection between players blindly following favorite builds that requires paying c-store points and the end of STO as we know it.

Lets say that the Bugatti Veyron is the fastest and most badass car in the world. Is everybody in a Bugatti Veyron or a top of the line sports car from Porche/Ferrari/Lamborgini?

Champions Online is a good example. F2P players get access to a base set of archtype heroes. Guess what? If you pay c-store points for elite archtypes, your hero is going to outperform one using the base archtype. So is everyone using an elite archtype? No. Are there groups who reject players using the free archtype? Some, but the vast majority don't care so long as the player with the free archtype is able to contribute to the group.

In many ways, I see STO ship classes and CO hero archtypes as very similar things. They both offer players a foundation upon which to build their ideal ship/hero. The player is still required to collect powerful weapons and what nots to turn this foundation into a powerful ship/hero.

CorporalClegg wrote:

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But I think the more important issue is that this shows Cryptic isn't really satisfied with the pay = vanity model, and once they get a taste, they're going to go nuts. Book it.

I am new to STO, I have no idea if Cryptic has ever used the term "vanity model". However, the STO c-store isn't a store based on the vanity model. A STO vanity store would be selling stuff individually rather than in packs. The store would filled with thousands of individual stuff like:

TOS Comm badge - 25 c-points
TNG Comm badge - 25 c-points
DS9 Comm badge - 25 c-points
Engineer Corps Comm badge - 25 c-points
Science Comm badge - 25 c-points
Starfleet Command Comm badge - 25 c-points
DS9 Jacket - 100 c-points
DS9 Inner sweat shirt - 100 c-points
DS9 Pants - 100 c-points
DS9 Boots - 50 c-points
Bajoran Militia Shirt - 100 c-points
Bajoran Vedek Robe - 150 c-points
Sovereign Class Saucer - 600 c-points
Sovereign Class Hull - 600 c-points
Sovereign Class Warp Nacelles - 400 c-points
Sovereign Class Pylons - 400 c-points

CorporalClegg wrote:

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I can almost guarantee that it won't be long before the next gear set comes out that will be significantly better than the MACO/OMEGA, and dilithium will be required to buy it.

And I can absolutely guarantee that it won't happen. Any MMO developer knows that the absolute best gear has to be purchased through hard work and hard work alone. That's why we have to constantly run STFs, collecting EDCs and prototype techs just to get those rare Mk XIs.

I have seen the 3 proposed Odyssey variants and I am not sure they're the ideal ship for everybody. The way I see it, what these new Odyssey ships offer is a stronger hull, more console slots and some special consoles that would be overpowering in PvP.

Does the new Odyssey appeal to players who think DPS is king? Resounding yes. Does it appeal to absolutely everybody? Probably not. I know my science officer would have some difficulty fitting her bridge officer's skillset with the science Odyssey and have to sacrifice some key abilities.

[Hartzilla2007]

Meh, I will probably pick up the Tac version and maybe the Eng version for a future Eng character and for the saucer sep but that's it since I don't really care about the work bees.

[intrinsical]

J. Allen wrote:

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Defense is more important to me than offense. Some of these PvPers are amazing. I've seen ships take continuous, sustained fire from half a dozen ships and almost shrug it off like it was nothing. I remember one ship, about 3 weeks back, that I saw in Ker'rat (A KDF BOP), that just couldn't be killed. 7 ships attacked him straight on, and his shields would fluctuate for a second, and never drop. That went on for a good 30 seconds, by which he then just hauled ass out of range in about 3 seconds.

I've been told by a PvPer that he can permanently hold off just about everything by cycling through a combination of 2 x Tactical Teams, 2 x Transfer Shield Strengths, 2 X Beam Fire At Wills and an occasional Polarize Hull and/or Tractor Beam Repulsors. Yup, fire at will for both offense and defense. I thought it was strange until he pointed out that fire at will takes down the targetable incoming projectiles such as the infamous Elite Tactical Cube's ghost torpedos.

He further claims that with 2 x Directed Energy Modulation and 2 x Rare 35% Antiproton Mag Regulators, he pretty much decimates the field. I don't know if his claims are true, but its a build I'ld love to test out one of these days.

J. Allen wrote:

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Really? Why is that? I've had a fair bit of luck mixing phaser and polaron beam arrays.

Lower weapons power == Lower damage

They are worried about the power drain that comes from of using weapons of different energy types. Personally, I find that the power drain from 2 energy types to be acceptable and does not significantly reduce my overall damage throughput.

[Scout101]

Ok, but instead of having a polaron booster and a phaser booster, you'd get a lot more power out of 2 phasers and 2 phaser boosters...

[J. Allen]

intrinsical wrote:

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I've been told by a PvPer that he can permanently hold off just about everything by cycling through a combination of 2 x Tactical Teams, 2 x Transfer Shield Strengths, 2 X Beam Fire At Wills and an occasional Polarize Hull and/or Tractor Beam Repulsors. Yup, fire at will for both offense and defense. I thought it was strange until he pointed out that fire at will takes down the targetable incoming projectiles such as the infamous Elite Tactical Cube's ghost torpedos.

He further claims that with 2 x Directed Energy Modulation and 2 x Rare 35% Antiproton Mag Regulators, he pretty much decimates the field. I don't know if his claims are true, but its a build I'ld love to test out one of these days.

Lower weapons power == Lower damage

They are worried about the power drain that comes from of using weapons of different energy types. Personally, I find that the power drain from 2 energy types to be acceptable and does not significantly reduce my overall damage throughput.

This sounds like an experiment needs to be done. Since I have 7 ships left (I got rid of a bunch to make room), and all of them have Mk X & XI purple gear, it may be worth a shot. I've got 2 Rare Mag Regulators, and I have all the consoles and officers I need to make each build, so I'll see what happens when I put it all together and test it out.

Thing is, with my current build, and all weapons firing, my weapons energy never drops below 98. Still, we'll see how this all works out. To the laboratory!

Scout101 wrote:

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Ok, but instead of having a polaron booster and a phaser booster, you'd get a lot more power out of 2 phasers and 2 phaser boosters...

Do the consoles stack?