RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 141,444
Posts: 5,507,695
Members: 25,134
Currently online: 382
Newest member: xunixan

TrekToday headlines

Retro Review: The Emperor’s New Cloak
By: Michelle on Dec 20

Star Trek Opera
By: T'Bonz on Dec 19

New Abrams Project
By: T'Bonz on Dec 18

IDW Publishing March 2015 Comics
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Paramount Star Trek 3 Expectations
By: T'Bonz on Dec 17

Star Trek #39 Sneak Peek
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Star Trek 3 Potential Director Shortlist
By: T'Bonz on Dec 16

Official Starships Collection Update
By: T'Bonz on Dec 15

Retro Review: Prodigal Daughter
By: Michelle on Dec 13

Sindicate Lager To Debut In The US Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Dec 12


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 7 2012, 08:02 AM   #211
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
I don't see how Ms. Lien's shyness would be relevant to the way writers treated her character.
Perhaps because they weren't getting the performances they imagined? I dunno, but I do know several people who worked with her found her rather tricky to communicate with. Some actors and characters just fail to click with the writing team.

If there's stuff from long before her dismissal about the difficulties writing for her, then I'd believe it, but otherwise it just looks like rationalization.
As I mentioned, you can see them tinkering with Kes all through the series: her "elogium", the break up with Neelix, moving from gardening to nursing, discovering powers, pairing her with the EMH, then Tuvok, changing her hair and costuming, etc.

They really didn't have to rationalize anything about her dismissal. The producers had to let a character go in order to be able to afford to add Jeri Ryan. They narrowed down to the two characters/actors that caused them problems (be they discipline problems or writing problems, or whatever) and chose Lien to go when Wang got the "People" accolade. The writers say the character was hard to write for, and the many changes to the character over the years seems to bear that out.

Similarly, they let Gates McFadden go in TNG. Publicly, the character "wasn't working" and they recast for a different approach to the CMO. As we found out later, there was friction on the set caused by delays due to McFadden's very fine hair losing its style under the hot lights (hence the choice of expensive wigs when she returned), plus the eventual declaration from the actress that there had been friction between her and someone on high in production.

Similarly, TOS let Grace Lee Whitney go. Publicly, the character "wasn't necessary" and they wanted Kirk not to be tied down to one romantic interest. As we found out later, from the actress, there had been an addiction to diet pills, and ah... friction between her and someone on high in production.

sonak wrote: View Post
OK, so the fact that they were going to keep Kes and drop Kim would seem to settle the argument about how Kes had to go because she was so difficult to write for. Had that been the case, she would have been the first choice to go.
No, it doesn't "settle" anything. Wang was also causing a series of difficulties - supposedly not turning up on time, despite warnings, not being on hand to do the off-screen lines when a dialog partner was on camera, and refusing to do his "homework" shadowing the director when he was pressing to be allowed to direct.

When Wang wasn't able to be let go, they then had to choose another. The writers could probably see plenty of story possibilities for everyone else, and less for Kes. They'd already tried a range of stories with her, leaving perhaps only Miracle Life-Expectancy Extension to go, in order to avoid latex age makeups. Lien was supposedly already allergic to her ear tips, which is why they let Kes let her hair down.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Therin of Andor; March 7 2012 at 08:17 AM. Reason: more
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:13 AM   #212
Jetfire
Guest
 
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Q: Why was Kes written off the show?
A: Too many babes...someone had to go with the arrival of our new Borg Goddess.

Gotta keep the Captain...our Klingon huntress can't go...86 the Ocampa elf.
  Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:13 AM   #213
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

if they were firing both of them, then they we'ren't going to replace him with a new regular cast member.

The lien money could have gone all over?

SFX one week, wardrobe the next and a few extras the following...

Once they saw how that worked, they could just keep firing actors till it's just seven and the doctor and a mountain of sfx.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:19 AM   #214
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Lynx wrote: View Post
The interesting thing is that the loss of the ability to write for Kes was very sudden.
I see the many changes to her character as signs the writers were scratching on how to use the character effectively.

sonak wrote: View Post
Again, if someone can point out stuff said about her being hard to write for long before the fourth season, then I could buy that argument a little more.
Interviews around the time of "Warlord", IIRC. Breaking up Neelix and Kes was an attempt to liven/freshen things up a bit, since negative viewer reaction to the sexually immature Kes (until "Elogium") and "dirty old man" Neelix was causing concern.
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Therin of Andor; March 7 2012 at 08:30 AM. Reason: typo
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:22 AM   #215
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
As we found out later, there was friction on the set caused by delays due to McFadden's very fine hair losing its style under the hot lights (hence the choice of expensive wigs when she returned),
You have just destroyed the one thing I loved about Crusher. Destroyed it.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:24 AM   #216
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post

Once they saw how that worked, they could just keep firing actors till it's just seven and the doctor and a mountain of sfx.
You left someone out.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:28 AM   #217
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
You have just destroyed the one thing I loved about Crusher. Destroyed it.
What, you thought the wigs she wore from Seasons Three through Seven were her own hair?
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:29 AM   #218
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post

Once they saw how that worked, they could just keep firing actors till it's just seven and the doctor and a mountain of sfx.
You left someone out.
My cogent paradigm was intended to illustrate that TPTB are batshit.

And Therin, if most men were capable if identifying "wigs" as ridiculous and obvious, women wouldn't bother with them because they'd be fools to want to seem ridiculous and obvious, and as a certain aside, if most men could identify wigs as ridiculous and obvious the toupee industry would be bankrupt yesterday.

So what's Teacakes excuse for being suckered by a ridiculous and obvious wig, since she's part of the conspiracy to temporarily retrofit women to the detriment of a competing sex?
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:30 AM   #219
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
You have just destroyed the one thing I loved about Crusher. Destroyed it.
What, you thought the wigs she wore from Seasons Three through Seven were her own hair?
Yep. I was also shocked to learn that TOS used styrofoam rocks.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:41 AM   #220
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Half those rocks were dildos if I believe the avatars in these forums.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:49 AM   #221
Therin of Andor
Admiral
 
Therin of Andor's Avatar
 
Location: New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
View Therin of Andor's Twitter Profile
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
Yep. I was also shocked to learn that TOS used styrofoam rocks.
Shran's blue antennae are made of painted latex - and are connected to a remote-control device held off-camera. Tee hee.

BTW, me (far left) with foam-rubber Star Trek rock:


Klingons rock by Therin of Andor, on Flickr
__________________
Thiptho lapth! Ian (Entire post is personal opinion)
The Andor Files @ http://andorfiles.blogspot.com/
http://therinofandor.blogspot.com/
Therin of Andor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 08:58 AM   #222
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You don't understand! "You" being everyone! For 5 years on this BBS I have had exactly one comment every time the topic of Crusher has come up: "She has beautiful hair." That's been it and it's been my way of saying "Crusher is as boring as dirt to me" because truly that's all I have to say about her. I wasn't exaggerating mind you, I really did admire her hair quite a bit. But I also needed to say she was as boring as dirt to me without actually saying it. Now what am I to do?

I feel like there's a writer's strike in my brain.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 09:21 AM   #223
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Dude.

And I say that as sexlessly as a possible.

"Dude"

Jeri Ryan has nice tits.

Oh?

Jeri Ryan has nice fake Tits?

Her fake tits are nicer than her real anything else?

Well?

I like that she is tall. Tall chicks are hot.

Jeri, as Seven of Nine wears 4 inch heals.

Maybe 6 inch heals.

Okay she has a nice personality then.

Jeri or Seven?

Because you've never met Jeri (yes, the convention that time, shut up, I'm making a point. oh gods! her damn assistant writes that twitter feed! Stop interrupting...), and Seven of Nine is just a manifestation of Brannan Braga's ego?

You're into a dude, dude.

Woman are just layers and layers of falseness (makeup, jewellery, polish, clothes, perfumes, surgery and hair dye.) until you find nothing (SHREK!) or a dude.

Woman are men.

They just hide it well.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 09:37 AM   #224
Jetfire
Guest
 
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Whatever...

  Reply With Quote
Old March 7 2012, 09:38 AM   #225
teacake
Fleet Admiral
 
teacake's Avatar
 
Location: Google's ass cave full of the lush, lush asses they have stolen.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

If I put my hands on Jeri Ryan's breasts what do I feel? JERI RYAN. Because it's her skin. Whether she has something extra underneath or not, I am still feeling Jeri Ryan.

If I put my hands on Crusher's hair I am in direct contact with something that is not her.

It would be as if Jeri Ryan had no breasts and had completely fake ones strapped to her chest and I was feeling them.

It's okay though, I have worked out the paragraph of disclaimers I plan to post along with my hair comments the next time Crusher comes up. I may even include my comparison to Jeri Ryan's breasts.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacake is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
kes, kim, lien

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 09:59 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.