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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old March 6 2012, 12:05 AM   #571
CaptainMatt
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Excellent point.
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Old March 6 2012, 09:42 AM   #572
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

teacake wrote: View Post
One thing the Borg have going for them is sheer numbers to overwhelm a whole planet. They don't need to precisely destroy anything as destruction is not their agenda. If they rely on numbers they will be weaker when they don't have those numbers available. The Borg "fleet" seen in VOY was very impressive, but these numbers are in the DQ not the AQ. Yet.
The Borg could overwhelm the entire Federation if they wanted to.
The writers should have emphasized that the Collective was 'toying' with the Feds constantly, using them to promote technologies against them, and could have staged the entire Endgame fiasco as a ploy to determine just what methods humanity uses and the process behind those methods (or way of thinking so they can better adapt).
Essentially use them as lab-rats of sorts.

Eliminate the queen too.
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Old March 6 2012, 11:51 AM   #573
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Numbers?

The Borg send one Cube out into the unknown like a seed knowing that one cube with a bit of luck can bring 'civilization" to large fraction of the acceptable/useful beings in the galaxy.

What we saw in the beginning of Scorpion was an exodus.

refugees.

In one battle half way through the 2nd episode, 8472 had destroyed eight planets, three hundred twelve vessels disabled, four million, six hundred twenty-one Borg... And that probably only took a few 8472 moments.

8472 had been at this for over a year.

What we were seeing were not fleets per say but the remnants of planets and cities that broke off and feared complete destruction, as well as obviously defensive fleets, but really if a planet can be turned into a few million guns, why do they need ships?
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Old March 6 2012, 11:08 PM   #574
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

A good point. I always wondered why TNG only ever used one Borg cube in their stories, even in the First Contact feature. At least Voyager tried something different with multiple cubes and so on making an appearance at various points.
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Old March 8 2012, 04:34 AM   #575
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

CaptainMatt wrote: View Post
A good point. I always wondered why TNG only ever used one Borg cube in their stories, even in the First Contact feature. At least Voyager tried something different with multiple cubes and so on making an appearance at various points.
Indeed wish people accepted that with open arms,instead they criticize everything.
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Old March 8 2012, 04:41 AM   #576
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

I think the whole "one cube" thing only completely stopped making sense once we saw just how many cubes the collective actually has in "Scorpion".
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Old March 8 2012, 05:45 AM   #577
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
I think the whole "one cube" thing only completely stopped making sense once we saw just how many cubes the collective actually has in "Scorpion".
well in ''Dark Frontier'' where the Queen says she has no Interest in a direct assault on earth she was gonna infect the population with nano probe viruses instead,assimilation would be gradual. meaning the cubes stay in DQ
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Old March 8 2012, 07:18 AM   #578
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Voyager didn't weaken The Borg, it was The Borg who weakened Voyager.
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Old March 8 2012, 08:53 AM   #579
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

CaptainMatt wrote: View Post
At least Voyager tried something different with multiple cubes and so on making an appearance at various points.

Agreed. It was another Catch-22 for VOY.

If they would have only used one cube, they would have been grilled for being unoriginal, denying the audience something new, and just copying TNG.

Perhaps the real problem was the concept of the Queen herself. That changed the Borg more than the quantity of cubes. It muddied the waters and no one ever quite knew the exact boundaries of the Queen's existence because First Contact didn't really explain it.

Instead of being a unique faceless villain, the Borg were normalized in a way. VOY didn't make that change; it was forced to react to it.

After "Scorpion," I wish the show's main villain would have been 8472.
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Old March 8 2012, 09:02 AM   #580
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

They changed shape.

They could be anyone.

How best to keep tabs on Voyager by running across them every week pretending to be another pack of assholes or dimwits each week to teach the humans a different moral fable to edge them away from any future alliance with the borg.

For the last four years Voyager was paddling about in a Fishbowl made by 8472.
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Old March 8 2012, 09:19 AM   #581
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

^well, it would have preferably been the 8472 we saw in "Scorpion" and "Prey." Not whatever that version was that came afterward.
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Old March 8 2012, 02:30 PM   #582
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

They were also too powerful, unless VOY stopped being about one ship and had them try to put a Delta Federation together.
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Old March 8 2012, 08:26 PM   #583
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Which they should have been doing from the beginning.

At the very least handing out pamphlets so that when the federation border arrives on these planets doorsteps they're not to scared.
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Old March 8 2012, 09:26 PM   #584
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Which they should have been doing from the beginning.
Well, yeah. I agree with that, building a Delta Federation is a far more compelling and inventive plot than "Lost in Space" ever could be.
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Old March 8 2012, 09:45 PM   #585
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

A Delta Federation? Here we are a handful of people from the other side of the galaxy and we have these great new rules and guidelines that you can follow to be in our club! Oh and no, you can't have our tech unless you're in our club.
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