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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old March 5 2012, 02:01 AM   #1
IntrepidMan
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Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

Lately I have spent a lot of time watching old Voyager episodes online. I watched the show religiously when it first aired in the 90s, but that was more than 10 years ago and I was just a kid. Now I am watching it in a new light, more aware of its flaws than I was before. Voyager doesn't hold a candle to the best TV shows out there (shows like The Wire or Breaking Bad, which I am also watching a lot of), but for what it is--simple, harmless sci-fi fun--it's not bad. I feel like it could have been so much more, that, like other Trek shows, the premise had great potential and the writers, producers, and actors lacked the talent to really follow through. But it's not bad.

One of my favorite characters on the show is Tuvok. Yes, he was underdeveloped and one-dimensional at times, and I have always been partial to Vulcans; whereas others consider them rigid and arrogant, I see them as equable and competent. But, aside from Janeway, Tuvok often seems to be the only adult on Voyager, one of the few members of the crew who is consistently acts in a mature and professional manner.

Consider the others: Kim is a child, Paris grows up somewhat after hooking up with Torres but is still pretty childish. The Doctor and Seven are professionally competent but socially immature; Torres also lacks maturity, although she, like Paris, grows up a bit as the show progresses. Chakotay is wise but lacks balls and is not someone I would look up to. Kes is a child, Neelix is an idiot.

That leaves Janeway and Tuvok. Say what you will about the Captain--she can be fickle, moody, irresponsible--but she's got guts and isn't afraid to take a risk. She gets the job done--she got Voyager home, didn't she? She is someone you can trust and take orders from, without question, just like Picard and Sisko. Chakotay, on the other hand, is not a take-charge kind of guy. He whines. He equivocates. He's risk-averse. Were he my first officer, I might be okay letting him command the ship while I was away, but I would feel a whole lot better if Tuvok was there beside him.

Yep, Tuvok is a grown-up. I would probably kill myself if I had to spend 7 years of my life stuck on the same ship as Kim or Paris. Tuvok, on the other hand--he's someone I could get along with.
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Old March 5 2012, 02:38 AM   #2
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

He's also a helluva lot older than everyone else on the ship.

Janeway certainly relies on him more than on Chakotay it seems.. as a kind of touchstone.
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Old March 5 2012, 06:03 AM   #3
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

^Yes, but the fact that he is much older is hardly a good excuse for the others. Paris and Kim are adult humans and should frickin' act like it. Their juvenile behavior would never be tolerated on a real military ship. It's hard watching them whine and goof off and think that they have any business being on a Starfleet ship. Yes, I know Paris is not a "real" Starfleet officer, so I guess my real complaint is with Kim.
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Old March 5 2012, 08:05 AM   #4
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

Starfleet is only a military organization when the mission requires it. And from what I know of my military friends, yes, acting like a juvenile idiot is sometimes exactly what happens. It's not like they do it while they're in the middle of a crisis. Voyager isn't just their place of work; it's their home.
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Old March 5 2012, 08:12 AM   #5
Guy Gardener
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

McCoy was a hundred and 40 in Encounter at Farpoint, and not only did he show little sign of slowing down, but a human being born in 2350 (like Kim) is going to live longer and look a hell of a lot better when he's a hundred and 40.

Middle age for a human being is probably by 2378 is going to be upward plus One hundred years.

Janeway, barely "40" is probably thought of as an adolescent.
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Old March 5 2012, 06:30 PM   #6
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

Tuvok is awesome. I wish they paid more attention to the Janeway-Tuvok friendship as the show went on.
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Old March 6 2012, 12:24 AM   #7
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

It was a very believable friendship.
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Old March 6 2012, 04:30 AM   #8
IntrepidMan
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

RoJoHen wrote: View Post
Starfleet is only a military organization when the mission requires it. And from what I know of my military friends, yes, acting like a juvenile idiot is sometimes exactly what happens. It's not like they do it while they're in the middle of a crisis. Voyager isn't just their place of work; it's their home.
Fair enough. I don't have any military friends, but military characters on TV and in the movies act like juvenile idiots all the time. I guess I would expect more from a Starfleet officer. Again, Paris' antics I can understand because he isn't Starfleet (although I still find him extremely annoying).

Kim on the other hand...I understand he is just an ensign, and he is obviously smart, but watching him whine about not being promoted in "Nightingale" and then completely screwing up his command mission, I don't get the impression that he is a capable, or even potentially capable, officer. On so many other occasions on VOY he just acts very childish.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post

Janeway, barely "40" is probably thought of as an adolescent.
You can't be serious. Just because people live longer, it doesn't mean their rate of development has changed. You can't stretch out puberty just because people now live to 150. A 40-year-old in the 24th century is no more of an adoescent than a 40-year-old today--she can just expect to have a much longer life.
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Old March 6 2012, 04:40 AM   #9
teacake
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

Apparently adolescence is getting longer with people not taking on an adult life to they get past 25 sometimes. Umpteen years in college, bad economy keeps you living with parents etc..

If I lived to be 150 I might spend 40 years dicking around rather than 25.

Of course this isn't the case with Janeway who was engaged, a starfleet captain and clearly living an adult life. But it could be.
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Old March 6 2012, 03:54 PM   #10
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
Apparently adolescence is getting longer with people not taking on an adult life to they get past 25 sometimes. Umpteen years in college, bad economy keeps you living with parents etc..
True, but biologically everything remains the same development wise. Hormones don't care about the economy. And an adult life can be subjective I think.

Having Janeway entering the bridge once with a hangover because she has been helping Seven become more human by talking her into a drinking contest doesn't make her any less adult. I'm sure Tuvok would notice and show his disapproval by slightly raising an eyebrow because it is unprofessional behavior. Doc will probably have something less than flattering to say about it, but to say that Janeway reverted back to adolescence...

On the other hand, if it would be Tom or Harry who entered the bridge with a hangover, then we can moan and whine all we want about them still being stuck in their late teens.

The stuff you can get away with if you can at least fake some professional behavior for a couple of years is interesting.
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Old March 6 2012, 04:37 PM   #11
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

teacake wrote: View Post
Apparently adolescence is getting longer with people not taking on an adult life to they get past 25 sometimes. Umpteen years in college, bad economy keeps you living with parents etc..

If I lived to be 150 I might spend 40 years dicking around rather than 25.

Of course this isn't the case with Janeway who was engaged, a starfleet captain and clearly living an adult life. But it could be.

um, no. The trend you're referring to is strictly economics and that's it. If jobs were available, they wouldn't be delaying their adult lives just because they like to "dick around." Psychologically and biologically they're adults.

adolescence is not getting longer.
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Old March 6 2012, 10:00 PM   #12
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

There's also the expectation of spending years in school getting masters degrees etc..which delays living as an independent adult. I've noticed a difference in Australia and America in this respect as going to university is not the expected thing here and people are fully qualified and employable in a trade by or before they are 20. So it's not just the economics of the job market, it's that we don't expect people to be living as independent adults outside of a school and/or parents setting until a lot later than we did in the past.
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Old March 7 2012, 02:54 AM   #13
exodus
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

IntrepidMan wrote: View Post
^Yes, but the fact that he is much older is hardly a good excuse for the others. Paris and Kim are adult humans and should frickin' act like it. Their juvenile behavior would never be tolerated on a real military ship. It's hard watching them whine and goof off and think that they have any business being on a Starfleet ship. Yes, I know Paris is not a "real" Starfleet officer, so I guess my real complaint is with Kim.
Go to Youtube.
There's plenty of documented footage of military officers acting juvenile. Pranks and hazing in college and the military was one of the top stories in the news about 4 or 5 years ago.

As far as Tuvok. I found he could be very immature in his own way. The fact he was a senior officer being groomed to one day be a captain, he showed great selfishness when it came to many of the emotional issues when dealing with the crew. Many times Janeway had to order him to attend ships functions because its expected of senior officers. It reflects badly on the captain if her chief of security is unwilling to associate with his staff for moral support.
He also showed poor diplomatic skills when it came to dealing with Neelix. Nobody really liked Neelix when he first joined the crew but Janeway, yet they all were polite to him except Tuvok. Not very mature.
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Last edited by exodus; March 7 2012 at 03:18 AM.
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Old March 7 2012, 03:00 AM   #14
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

sonak wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Apparently adolescence is getting longer with people not taking on an adult life to they get past 25 sometimes. Umpteen years in college, bad economy keeps you living with parents etc..

If I lived to be 150 I might spend 40 years dicking around rather than 25.

Of course this isn't the case with Janeway who was engaged, a starfleet captain and clearly living an adult life. But it could be.

um, no. The trend you're referring to is strictly economics and that's it. If jobs were available, they wouldn't be delaying their adult lives just because they like to "dick around." Psychologically and biologically they're adults.

adolescence is not getting longer.
Seriously?
We're adults that post online to bicker about a fictional TV show. Many here still collect action figures, play video games or watch cartoons.
Anyone on the outside looking in I think would say we're all holding onto our adolescences a little longer.
Paris & Kim aren't any different than more than half us here.
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Old March 7 2012, 03:39 AM   #15
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Re: Tuvok: the only adult on Voyager

exodus wrote: View Post
Seriously?
We're adults that post online to bicker about a fictional TV show. Many here still collect action figures, play video games or watch cartoons.
Anyone on the outside looking in I think would say we're all holding onto our adolescences a little longer.
Paris & Kim aren't any different than more than half us here.
Just imagine what we would get up to if we had the holodeck!!
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