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Old March 1 2012, 06:32 PM   #16
BORU
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

I like Beyer's book, have enjoyed them.

I guess the major problem I have with them killing Janeway off is that it was written by an author who has stated he never like the series. If you didn't like the series why write for the character? It added insult to injury for me to have him write her death, even if he handled it well in the general opinion of most.

But as others have stated I can blissful fall into fan fiction, and some damn good fiction at that, where the story is to my liking and makes me feel happy, happy, joy, joy.


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Old March 1 2012, 06:44 PM   #17
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

I didn't like that Janeway was 'removed'.
I really liked her as a lead role on Voyager and found her to be a strong character on her own.
That said, the TrekLit novelizations in which the Borg invade the A.Q. (prelude to the Destiny trilogy) certainly made it look like she was 'dead'.
But the same novel ('Before Dishonor') actually shows us lady Q taking Janeway's consciousness with her to apparently explore the universe (and honestly, we don't know if lady Q might have salvaged her physical body as well).
I must say I found it interesting to see lady Q taking an interest in Kathryn, but then again I did kinda like her as a character when she made an appearance on the show during the Continuum civil war scenario.
It was unexpected, but refreshing.

Point is... 'Janeway's ending' in 'Before Dishonor' still leaves an open option for her to be 'brought back' - but I also think it might 'cheapen' it if she returned as a regular human.
Nah... it would be interesting for her to come back in a different form (an ascended Human of sorts - Trek alluded to this possibility) to guide Voyager for example.

The Caeliar in the novels indicated there were other hostile and technologically advanced species elsewhere outside the Milky Way.
Remember how Q offered to the Enterprise-D to be the 'guide' in 'Q-who'?
Why not do something similar with Janeway and have her make an appearance to 'guide' Voyager (but not necessarily 'help' by providing a 'Deus Ex Machina' solution to a problem)?
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Old March 1 2012, 06:52 PM   #18
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

And that's another thing - the whole Q thingy - never really found Q to be anything but comic relief and I really don't like any association between her and them as far as a storyline goes.

Never been a big Q fan so, blasphemy I know, I rather she stayed gone than to be part of them. It just strikes me as throwing the fans a bone..."look she's not really gone, we sent her with the Q cause she's worthy" kind of thing.
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Old March 1 2012, 07:57 PM   #19
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

As much as I've enjoyed Kirsten Beyer's 3 Voyager novels, Fleet Captain Afsarah Eden is no Admiral Janeway. Voyager's kinda become like Stargate SG1 after Richard Dean Anderson left. It's enjoyable, but it's not the same.

That said, seeing everyone cope with Janeway's death (she's certainly not forgotten), and seeing the Voyager crew grow and change (something we saw far too little of in the show itself) make the books worthwhile.
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Old March 1 2012, 09:54 PM   #20
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

I only read the first one where Eden was introduced, and I liked her very much. Why can't she be in a book with Janeway? Stick them on the same ship! Eden can be captain and Janeway can be Secret-Qreturned-Delta-Admiral advisor. Whatever.
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Old March 3 2012, 10:59 PM   #21
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

KingDaniel wrote: View Post
As much as I've enjoyed Kirsten Beyer's 3 Voyager novels, Fleet Captain Afsarah Eden is no Admiral Janeway. Voyager's kinda become like Stargate SG1 after Richard Dean Anderson left. It's enjoyable, but it's not the same.

That said, seeing everyone cope with Janeway's death (she's certainly not forgotten), and seeing the Voyager crew grow and change (something we saw far too little of in the show itself) make the books worthwhile.
I agree on the Stargate example. That series went down when O'Neill (Anderson) left. The replacement character Mitchell was OK but it was never the same without O'Neill. However, they did at least have the decency to not kill off or ruin O'Neill in any way.

Not to mention that Stargate SG1 never became as bad as Stargate Universe (yawn!).

As for changes, I prefer the Voyager crew as they were in seasons 1-3 of the series and in the books. That's why I rather re-read "The Black Shore" for the umpteenth time than spend money on the relaunch books.
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Old March 4 2012, 06:26 AM   #22
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

BORU wrote: View Post
I like Beyer's book, have enjoyed them.

I guess the major problem I have with them killing Janeway off is that it was written by an author who has stated he never like the series. If you didn't like the series why write for the character? It added insult to injury for me to have him write her death, even if he handled it well in the general opinion of most.
Actually most people think it was very badly done. Even those happy to never see her return and those who weren't Janeway fans. I thought the writing was terrible, much of it didn't sound like the characters at all.. there was no drama or build up. A very poor book which I think contributed to the anger over her death in the first place.
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Old March 5 2012, 09:36 AM   #23
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

teacake wrote: View Post
Actually most people think it was very badly done.
Untrue. There are plenty of people who enjoyed the Peter David novel - and the death did exactly what it was supposed to do: give the neglected VOY Relaunch a good shakeup, free publicity and greatly improved sales.

david g wrote: View Post
I havent actively followed the recent VOY relaunch books...but from what I can tell...
The OP, david g needs to read this thread:
http://www.trekbbs.com/showthread.php?t=144651
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Old March 5 2012, 09:42 AM   #24
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

And Therin there are PLENTY of people who think otherwise. Even if people are thrilled she is dead and thrilled with what happened afterwards this was not a book highly rated for literary qualities.

Amazon reviews offer a fairly divided opinion:

http://www.amazon.com/Before-Dishono...0937003&sr=8-1

First review by P.Taylor kind of sums up the silliness, without any Janeway grinding axes either.
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Old March 5 2012, 04:13 PM   #25
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

teacake wrote: View Post
And Therin there are PLENTY of people who think otherwise. Even if people are thrilled she is dead and thrilled with what happened afterwards this was not a book highly rated for literary qualities.

Amazon reviews offer a fairly divided opinion:

http://www.amazon.com/Before-Dishono...0937003&sr=8-1

First review by P.Taylor kind of sums up the silliness, without any Janeway grinding axes either.

Whew! So I guess we weren't the only ones who didn't like that book. This guy summed it up pretty well for me...

Janeway deserved better. Pluto did too, for that matter. This is one of those few Trek books I really wish had been cast off by other authors instead of being embraced by them as cannon.(sic) The characters were flat and badly written, the story old..... If you are going to sacrifice a major player in a series at least do it with some dignity.
Oh well...

Novels aren't canon.

She lives in my heart and fanfic throughout the universe!
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Old March 5 2012, 05:21 PM   #26
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

JanewayRulz! wrote: View Post
Novels aren't canon.
They may as well be - there's no more ongoing Trek outside the JJverse and it's incredibly unlikely that there will ever be any more.

The novels won't be contradicted.
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Old March 5 2012, 08:46 PM   #27
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

I get the impression that many of those who like the current direction of the books are those who didn't like the TV series and didn't like Janeway either.

As for books being canon or not, for a very long time I stated in several debates that I regarded the books as canon.

And look what I got for that!
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Old March 5 2012, 10:33 PM   #28
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Relayer1 is right. You can either say Voyager ended with "Endgame" in 2277 and a Janeway cameo in Nemesis in 2379 and that's it. Or, you can read the novels and find out what happened next. The last Voyager book was set at the end of 2381 and the last Next Gen book ended in 2383. The galaxy's moved on.
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Old March 5 2012, 11:04 PM   #29
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Lynx wrote: View Post
I get the impression that many of those who like the current direction of the books are those who didn't like the TV series and didn't like Janeway either.

As for books being canon or not, for a very long time I stated in several debates that I regarded the books as canon.

And look what I got for that!
Well, I can only speak for myself, but I didn't like Voyager anywhere near as much as other Trek, but I did like it - it just could have been so much better. Any Trek is better than no Trek.

Guilty as charged with Janeway though, and yes, I like the current books...I don't know if I am a representative sample though !

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Old March 5 2012, 11:21 PM   #30
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Re: VOY Fans and Janeway in the VOY relaunch books (spoilers)

Lynx wrote: View Post
I get the impression that many of those who like the current direction of the books are those who didn't like the TV series and didn't like Janeway either.
Not necessarily. Personally, I thought the manner in which Janeway was killed off was supremely lame and did nothing for the character. Surprising, since Peter David is usually a reliable author, but that book was simply poor.

However.....now that the deed is done, I have to acknowledge that it has opened up a fascinating range of stories, and the subsequent books have been very good at dealing with the consequences of that event.

So I do like the current direction of the books even though I felt Janeway deserved better as a character.
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