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Old February 29 2012, 11:58 PM   #166
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

No challenge, just money.
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Old March 1 2012, 12:59 AM   #167
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Sandoval wrote: View Post
I've said this before, but how a decision based on looks leaves you keeping Garrett Wang and sacking Jennifer Lien baffles me.
They wanted to put Seven of Nine on the show and budjet wouldn't pay for both.
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Old March 1 2012, 01:34 AM   #168
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Keith1701 wrote: View Post
Sandoval wrote: View Post
I've said this before, but how a decision based on looks leaves you keeping Garrett Wang and sacking Jennifer Lien baffles me.
They wanted to put Seven of Nine on the show and budjet wouldn't pay for both.
You remember how the budget used to allow for Seska and Kulluh and all their minions? That was a second tier of actors and some additional permanent sets....

Berman scrapped all that to increase their cgi budget.

If they wanted to keep Jennifer, or more accurately "Get Jeri" then all they had to do is reduce the cgi budget back to where it was in seaosn 2, or at least what it was adjusted for inflation.
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Old March 1 2012, 01:50 AM   #169
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Best CGI moment was Species 8472 crawling up the hull..
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Old March 1 2012, 02:40 AM   #170
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Why am I thinking about looking at Wang's Wang under a microscope in "The Disease"?

Medically speaking, for just in case, or for when he writes a book about the issues of travelling through unknown space, the Doctor would have kept a sample of Harry's STD in a Stasis cooler which medical Students would be studying for the next thousand years.

Actually.

All the diseases, all the crew happened upon.

You can't tell me that the doctor wasn't planning some sort of medical experimentation on caretakers corpse eventually? At the very least of they were able to produce a clone with his memories it would have helped their journey so much.
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Old March 2 2012, 02:01 AM   #171
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

LOKAI of CHERON wrote: View Post
Sandoval wrote: View Post
I've said this before, but how a decision based on looks leaves you keeping Garrett Wang and sacking Jennifer Lien baffles me.
Agreed! Although I don't have any particular problem with the Harry Kim character - I would have selected Kes over him in a heartbeat.
The People magazine poll Wang won signalled to the producers and to the studio and to the execs at UPN that he could deliver eyeballs. That's why they kept him - because they had nothing to do with Wang being nominated or chosen for that "50 Most Beautiful People" poll, but they [UPN] weren't going to turn down free press for their flagship show.


Stephen! wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
but the studio said no to having ten regular cast members.
Ah, so that's presumably why DS9 was allowed to have Worf, since there was initially only eight regulars.
Apples and oranges. Just because DS9 did it, it doesn't necessarily follow that Voyager could. And vice versa.

Worf was brought in to shake things up (much the way Seven of Nine was) and also to service the larger storyline involving the breakdown of relations with the Klingons during DS9's fourth season. And while yes, it's true (mostly for budgetary reasons) that each show only had a certain number of regular cast members, I doubt very much it was the defining reason behind Lien's being let go.


Deckerd wrote: View Post
I think DS9 were given a lot of leeway to do what they liked in comparison to Voyager where the interference from the company was the stuff of legend.
The major difference being that DS9 was a syndicated show and Voyager was not only on an actual network, but was that network's flagship series. I've worked on both a syndicated show and am currently on a network show - and you better believe that the level of input, influence and "interference," as it were, is absolutely everpresent when an actual network is involved.
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Old March 2 2012, 02:57 AM   #172
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
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sonak wrote: View Post
I'm kind of surprised they didn't consider dumping Neelix
Not likely.
He was the only truly "alien" looking cast member and besides Kes and until Icheb, the only DQ native. Neelix was also a flawed hero which added more depth to his character. It was this lack of dramatic depth IMO that made Kes hard to write for.

a "flawed hero?" If you say so. I do get the DQ alien thing, but in terms of pure practical terms, Neelix was by far the most expendable, he was no longer even the guide, just a cook. Also, he was deeply unpopular, the Binks/Wesley of Voyager.
Lets keep it in context.
None of that was a factor during the first 3 seasons for the character. Neelix had a strong fan following during the shows start, more so than Kes or Kim.
Besides, if the writers feel no interest in writing for the character of Kes, then she is actually the more expendable. They still had interest in Neelix.
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Old March 2 2012, 08:22 PM   #173
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

exodus wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
Not likely.
He was the only truly "alien" looking cast member and besides Kes and until Icheb, the only DQ native. Neelix was also a flawed hero which added more depth to his character. It was this lack of dramatic depth IMO that made Kes hard to write for.

a "flawed hero?" If you say so. I do get the DQ alien thing, but in terms of pure practical terms, Neelix was by far the most expendable, he was no longer even the guide, just a cook. Also, he was deeply unpopular, the Binks/Wesley of Voyager.
Lets keep it in context.
None of that was a factor during the first 3 seasons for the character. Neelix had a strong fan following during the shows start, more so than Kes or Kim.
Besides, if the writers feel no interest in writing for the character of Kes, then she is actually the more expendable. They still had interest in Neelix.

can you cite support for that, your idea that Neelix was more popular in early seasons, and more popular than Kim or Kes? I really tend to doubt that. I remember in the early days of the interwebs when there were polls of Voyager fans, and Neelix routinely came in as most unpopular character.
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Old March 2 2012, 09:13 PM   #174
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Well I think it would have been a mistake to get rid of Neelix too, Phillips was the best actor they had.
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Old March 2 2012, 09:19 PM   #175
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

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Last edited by doubleohfive; March 2 2012 at 10:42 PM.
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Old March 3 2012, 10:52 PM   #176
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post


a "flawed hero?" If you say so. I do get the DQ alien thing, but in terms of pure practical terms, Neelix was by far the most expendable, he was no longer even the guide, just a cook. Also, he was deeply unpopular, the Binks/Wesley of Voyager.
Lets keep it in context.
None of that was a factor during the first 3 seasons for the character. Neelix had a strong fan following during the shows start, more so than Kes or Kim.
Besides, if the writers feel no interest in writing for the character of Kes, then she is actually the more expendable. They still had interest in Neelix.

can you cite support for that, your idea that Neelix was more popular in early seasons, and more popular than Kim or Kes? I really tend to doubt that. I remember in the early days of the interwebs when there were polls of Voyager fans, and Neelix routinely came in as most unpopular character.
I remember that too. It was almost like the "anti-Wesley" campaigns some years earlier.

Neelix got a lot of criticizm and there were also some debates about Janeway and Paris, many liked them but there were those who didn't. Kim was criticized for being boring. As for Kes, she wasn't the most popular character but definitely not the most disliked either.
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Old March 4 2012, 03:44 AM   #177
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
exodus wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post


a "flawed hero?" If you say so. I do get the DQ alien thing, but in terms of pure practical terms, Neelix was by far the most expendable, he was no longer even the guide, just a cook. Also, he was deeply unpopular, the Binks/Wesley of Voyager.
Lets keep it in context.
None of that was a factor during the first 3 seasons for the character. Neelix had a strong fan following during the shows start, more so than Kes or Kim.
Besides, if the writers feel no interest in writing for the character of Kes, then she is actually the more expendable. They still had interest in Neelix.

can you cite support for that, your idea that Neelix was more popular in early seasons, and more popular than Kim or Kes? I really tend to doubt that. I remember in the early days of the interwebs when there were polls of Voyager fans, and Neelix routinely came in as most unpopular character.
I know every Trek Con I went to during the early years of Voyager there was a fairly large group of middle aged women that started a Neelix fan club and had members in every city turn out to show their love for the character. Ethan Philips acknowledge them as did other cast members that were guest too. If the actors saw such dedication and turn out, them B&B were aware of it too from them. That type of fan support can often save a character from getting the boot on a TV, much like Matthew Fox's character on LOST who was supposed to be killed off first season but huge fan support of the character made the TPTB change their minds.
So yes to spite what was being said online. fans of Neelix turned up physically to show their numbers and more support for Neelix than Kim or Kes. IMO that shows a great love and dedication towards him.

That and again, he was still the only cast member in full latex make up. Him being the only new "alien" looking character would keep his job fairly safe too.
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Last edited by exodus; March 4 2012 at 05:18 AM.
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Old March 4 2012, 10:00 AM   #178
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Lynx wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
can you cite support for that, your idea that Neelix was more popular in early seasons, and more popular than Kim or Kes? I really tend to doubt that. I remember in the early days of the interwebs when there were polls of Voyager fans, and Neelix routinely came in as most unpopular character.
I remember that too. It was almost like the "anti-Wesley" campaigns some years earlier.

Neelix got a lot of criticizm and there were also some debates about Janeway and Paris, many liked them but there were those who didn't. Kim was criticized for being boring. As for Kes, she wasn't the most popular character but definitely not the most disliked either.
Ditto. I always assumed Neelix was kept on the show because Phillips was friends with TPTB. I don't have any support for that, it's just that I couldn't think of any other reason to keep him despite his lack of popularity. After all, the audience hated Wesley and he was written off.

I'd trade Neelix for Kes in a heartbeat. The Kes character was just starting to get really interesting when she was got her superpowers and went away. Warlord was just so damn good.
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Old March 4 2012, 10:12 AM   #179
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Neelix was supposed to be annoying. they wrote an annoying character to piss off the Vulcan.

Success!

Wesley was written to be supercool. The Children watching the show were supposed to want to be Wesley or smooch with Wesley... The adults should have wanted him to be their child, who they could be infinitely proud of for being thoroughly upstanding.

Epic fail.
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Old March 4 2012, 10:21 AM   #180
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Well that 1.9 was that "special extra episode" Juggernaut so that doesn't count!
Huh? Since when was "Juggernaut" not a "regular" episode?

"Juggernaut" is simply "the 115th episode of Star Trek: Voyager, the 21st episode of the fifth season", according to Wikipedia.
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