RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 140,061
Posts: 5,431,867
Members: 24,925
Currently online: 662
Newest member: dracopticon

TrekToday headlines

The Red Shirt Diaries #8
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

IDW Publishing January Comics
By: T'Bonz on Oct 20

Retro Review: Chrysalis
By: Michelle on Oct 18

The Next Generation Season Seven Blu-ray Details
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

CBS Launches Streaming Service
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Yelchin In New Indie Thriller
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Saldana In The Book of Life
By: T'Bonz on Oct 17

Cracked’s New Sci-Fi Satire
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Beltran Introduces Shakespeare To Theater Group
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16

Burton To Be Honored at Facets Boo! Bash
By: T'Bonz on Oct 16


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 28 2012, 07:31 AM   #151
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You never heard my speech about her earginas?

babies grow between their shoulder blades.

Either the males penis is 6 feet long, the sperm can survive for 10 times longer than human sperm, or ocampan females don't have their sex organs between their legs.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 28 2012, 07:33 AM   #152
teacock
Admiral
 
teacock's Avatar
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Cue Martia.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 28 2012, 05:34 PM   #153
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

BrownShatner wrote: View Post
Except for the fact that Kes wasn't a very marketable character (not that she was intended to be).

You have to admit that 7of9 checked all the Trek boxes, even beyond her cup-size. Super-intelligent, logical, biologically unemotional, naive in ways, stark contrast with the Captain character yet subordinate. She was the kind of character that should have been on the first season.
You're right about Kes not being intended to be a very marketable character.Personally I like her the way she was.

I don't think that Seven was that extraordinary and when it comes to the super-intelligent, logical thing, well we already have had Data. As for bringing her in from the start, no. What they should have done was to introduce her as the main villain in season 4, maybe as a Borg Queen. Then she could have been captured at the end of season 5 and in season 6 and 7 been transformed to a loyal crewmember (just as they did in season 4 but somewhat slower). Anyway, none of the original crew members should have been dumped.

When it comes to the Voyager crew, I think it was excellent as it was from the beginning. A good mixture of very different and interesting characters.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at:http://www.lynx677.tk/
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28 2012, 07:19 PM   #154
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I'm kind of surprised they didn't consider dumping Neelix
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28 2012, 10:01 PM   #155
teacock
Admiral
 
teacock's Avatar
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Neelix brought out a lot of Tuvok.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 12:55 AM   #156
MrPointy
Commander
 
MrPointy's Avatar
 
Location: Darwin, NT
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
Neelix brought out a lot of Tuvok.
Like anger.

Kes shouldn't have been dumped over Kim as she was a much more interesting character, with her elven nature, telepathy and wacky biology that makes no fucking sense. People say she's underutilised, but that's not entirely true.

Kes pretty much had that love triangle arc throughout s1-2. And it's somewhat established in 'Caretaker' that Kes is an adventurous person with a rebellious streak. 'Darkling' and her not renewing her relationship with Neelix in 'Warlord' because she realised there's more to life than hedgehog sex show that, to an extent.

In fact if you look closely, you could see each season Kes is on as a 'decade' in her life, so she's maturing and changing somewhat every year.

Kes's problem is that she was written as a jack-of-all-trades character, which means she doesn't stand out as much as she should, considering her concept. She also got a lot of shit episodes in s1/s2 about her or built around her ('Elogium', 'Cold Fire', 'Parturition'). She's closer to Kim/Chakotay/Neelix tier, and not Doctor/7/Janeway tier because of that.
__________________
“If like the leaf of the wisteria through which the sun darts his rays transparently you give your heart to me, I will no longer distrust you.” -- Lieutenant Worf
MrPointy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 02:01 AM   #157
exodus
Fleet Admiral
 
Location: The Digital Garden
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
I'm kind of surprised they didn't consider dumping Neelix
Not likely.
He was the only truly "alien" looking cast member and besides Kes and until Icheb, the only DQ native. Neelix was also a flawed hero which added more depth to his character. It was this lack of dramatic depth IMO that made Kes hard to write for.
__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.
exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 04:33 AM   #158
sonak
Vice Admiral
 
Location: in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

exodus wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
I'm kind of surprised they didn't consider dumping Neelix
Not likely.
He was the only truly "alien" looking cast member and besides Kes and until Icheb, the only DQ native. Neelix was also a flawed hero which added more depth to his character. It was this lack of dramatic depth IMO that made Kes hard to write for.

a "flawed hero?" If you say so. I do get the DQ alien thing, but in terms of pure practical terms, Neelix was by far the most expendable, he was no longer even the guide, just a cook. Also, he was deeply unpopular, the Binks/Wesley of Voyager.
sonak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 04:55 AM   #159
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

it's fine to say that kes wasn't popular... but who was?

Seven wasn't a break out character, she made out there, or broken, I'm not sure which, it was cheating either way.

So if Kes stayed, would Tom have wound up with Kes or B'Elanna?

Because before and After had some mighty strong opinions about Year of Hell.

Kes jumping queue to mount Tom changes future history and saves B'Elanna from being killed during first contact with the Kremin. It was completely selfless of her to disrespect B'Elanna's heart to save her life.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 08:52 PM   #160
Lynx
Rear Admiral
 
Lynx's Avatar
 
Location: Lynx Empire
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I still can't understand why they did state that Kes was difficult to write for.

In season 1, Kes had as much part of the action as Kim, Neelix, The Doctor and maybe Tuvok . In season 2, she was the main character in 2 episode and played a very important role in seven others which is more than Kim and Neelix achieved. In season 3 she as the main character in 2 episodes and played an important role in at leas 4 episode which is more than what Kim had and probably more than Neelix. Add to that that Taylor's "difficulties" to write for Kes didn't include her own books.

Not to mention that if an amateur like me can come up with decent (and appreciated ) Kes stories, then I expect the same from professional writers.
__________________
Who'd let that cat in here?

Welcome to visit the Kes Website at:http://www.lynx677.tk/
Lynx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 08:57 PM   #161
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Writers tend to favor certain characters over others.
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 10:00 PM   #162
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Just like parents.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 10:01 PM   #163
teacock
Admiral
 
teacock's Avatar
 
Location: teacake
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I never really found her to have much personality beyond sweet, wide eyed and super intelligent. Now maybe that's enough for some people but it didn't grab me.

I do think there could have been a huge amount of work done with only living for 9 years if they had her on a 7 year show. She could have been quite aged in seasons 6 and 7, if she was in a relationship there would have been those issues etc.. many things could have been done with this. I do not think she would have stayed with Tom if she had paired with him as she would have outgrown him intellectuality and emotionally in a month at her rate of development.

Really it's like the Maquis storyline, would have taken long term planning and infused the show and for whatever reason they just didn't want that.
__________________

"Damnit Spock. God damnit!" Kirk ST:V
■ ■ ■
Janeway does Melbourne
teacock is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 10:17 PM   #164
Guy Gardener
Fleet Admiral
 
Guy Gardener's Avatar
 
Location: In the lap of squalor I assure you.
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

She had her second birthday in twisted, which was originally supposed to be one of the last episodes of season one.

Right out of the gate it was the "Glue is coming out of my hands, I'm going to adhere to you, so that you can't run away for the next sixty hours while I keep banging you whether you're awake , asleep or crying/begging for me to stop because you're chaffing and bleeding."

Then in warlord she was planing orgies as an after event to a massacre, not that it was really her, but Dark Kes really highlighted how "nice" she was in the regular continuity.
__________________
"Glitter is the herpes of arts and craft."

Troy Yingst. My Life as Liz
Guy Gardener is online now   Reply With Quote
Old February 29 2012, 11:38 PM   #165
MacLeod
Admiral
 
Location: Great Britain
Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

If I remember in the original UK VHS releases, it was part of season 1. But if it was a case of the writers found it hard to right for her and played it safe by going with a character that's easier to writer. Where is the challange in that?
__________________
On the continent of wild endeavour in the mountains of solace and solitude there stood the citadel of the time lords, the oldest and most mighty race in the universe looking down on the galaxies below sworn never to interfere only to watch.
MacLeod is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
kes, kim, lien

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:53 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.