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Old February 28 2012, 12:02 AM   #121
Lynx
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
It also confused me that of all people, it was Jeri Taylor who thought getting rid of Kes was the best decision because as you said, she wrote stories for her in her books. Frankly I've never thought much of her as a writer and she is the one responsible for keeping those infamous Voyager holodecks just so she could have Janeway engage in her gothic holonovel.
I agree. Even if I actually like "Mosaic" and the background stories in "Pathways", I dislike Taylor's way to soothe over all problems and conflicts which were established in the series. In the series it was stated that Chakotay wasn't on good terms with his father Kolopak when Kolopak died. Taylor sooths it over by making them made up and solve their problems before Kolopak died.

The same with Torres. In "Pathways", Torres's rebellious attitude is explained by her longing for her Starfleet Officer father!

I also find Janeway a bit wimpy here and there in the background story in "Mosaic". There must have been a significant change in Janeway between the Academy and Voyager.

And we get no explanation at all to why Tom Paris had such a bad relationship to his father. It's all like "if we are a good, happy family who join hands and sing a little song, then everything will be fine". Life isn't always that easy.

Not to mention that the way Jennifer Lien was dumped wasn't particularily nice either.
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Old February 28 2012, 12:07 AM   #122
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You Will fail rambled...

It also confused me that of all people, it was Jeri Taylor who thought getting rid of Kes was the best decision
Second best. Garret had a fricking immunity idol.

If Garret had any dignity, he would have told them to go &^%$ themselves and just left.

This is how my ears would have heard Brannon explaining how close Kim got to the breadline to Wang.

"Hello garret, we want to fire you, we really think you suck and you deserve to live in a gutter, if we could make sure you never work in this town again we would, and we probably will after the series finishes, but the stupid assholes in marketing tell us that we can't fire you. I mean, I only want to fire you, Rick over there wants to break all your fingers... but anyhooo, since we can't tie you up in a sack and drown you for being tiresome and incompetent, and where the hell are the teen magazine covers calling you a heart throb, you are useless... but since we're giving you a pass, which in no known universe you deserve, you are so fucking lucky. Some times I see you, and I gun my engine a little, just imagining the sound of my wheels running over your half dead body powdering your bones... But fortunately since we got all this hate and venom and disgust to expel on someone, anyone really, and you're not available, you jammy bastard, I'm going to go over to Jennifer's trailer an give her exactly what you deserve, and exactly what I so want to give you, a swift death to all your hopes and dreams. When you see her crying Garret, and you will see her crying, just know full and well that I didn't do that, you did, she's an innocent little blonde thing and with in a year Jennifer is going to be a street walker and you're to blame... You can save her from the bum fights, it's in your power Garret. I can't fire you, but you can quit. Quit for me Garret. Quit for her. Quit and save Jennifer. She's not strong like you, only you can stop her life turning into a colossal mound of turds, only you can save her tears and deep psychological and abandonment issues... Or, you can just be an asshole and watch her get get shit canned in the face. Admit it, you have no human feelings inside you whatsoever? You're a monster Garret Wang! A monster! I despise you and the hole in your soul where your empathy should be!"

(Um. Actors don't have dignity. They have Agents.)
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Old February 28 2012, 01:21 AM   #123
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Interesting mental image... and quite amusing too. Thanks Guy
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Old February 28 2012, 01:42 AM   #124
exodus
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Lynx wrote: View Post
timtonruben359 wrote: View Post
Here's what happened:

Voyager was slipping in the ratings by its third season so word came down from UPN to mix things. Make the show more action based and 'sex it up' to appeal to a wider audience.

It was Brannon Braga who came up with the idea of adding a 'borg babe' (his words not mine) to the cast. UPN and paramount loved the idea but the budget wouldn't allow for 10 regular cast members so one of the characters had to go.
All the actors (with the exception of Kate Mulgrew) had signed 7 year contracts, but like most shows, there's a clause in the contracts that allows the studio to opt out of an actor's contract at the start of a new season. The actors are generally paid out of certain percentage of the remainder of their contract when they're not renewed.

It was originally decided that Garrett Wang. Wang was notorious for being late and unprepared for filming and at one point late during the 3rd Season was suspended from the show for two weeks. Harry Kim was attacked by Species 8472 in Scorpion Part 1 and was going to be killed off in part 2. During the hiatus however, Wang was voted by People Magazine as one of the 50 sexiest people on TV. The producers felt they couldn't let this free publicity go so they decided to keep Wang on cast.

It's largely believed that Jeri Taylor decided to axe the Kes character because she felt that character wasn't working and hard to write for. Several members of the writing staff like Kenneth Biller and Jeo Menosky were not happy with the decision. And Kate Mulgrew was furious.

Originally Kes was going to stay on board for a few episodes. The Gift was supposed to be the 5th episode of the fourth season and Kes' mental abilities were supposed to gradually expand over the previous 4 episodes. However, Jennifer Lien's schedule made her only available for the first two episodes.
Well, Jeri Taylor wasn't telling the truth when she stated that "Kes wasn't working and was hard to write for". In fact, Mrs. Taylor herself managed to come up with two good Kes stories in the books "Mosaic" and "Pathways". Not to mention that Taylor and the other writers had no problems with writing stories for Kes in the first three seasons of the show.

"Jennifer Lien's schedule made her only available for the first two episodes". What schedule? Have I missed something?

As for the ratings, they went up when Seven joined but it didn't take long before they were lower than in the first three seasons.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ekVOY27157.gif
Two stories in two books and 2 stories a year out of 28 stories a season doesn't equate into 7 years worth of material . Even while Kes wa on the show by 3rd season they weren't writing much more than her saying "yes, doctor." I think it shows Jeri Taylor wasn't lying. What reason would she have to lie for if she's admitting it was their own lack of success.

Besides, everyone wants to blame Rick Berman or Jeri Taylor.
Did anyone bother to ask what Jen Lien wanted? Did anybody consider she didn't want to stay doing Trek. That she didn't like the job. She has said since the start that the choice to leave was mutual.
As Guy has correctly pointed out, actors have agents.

Ratings was a small part of what modern Trek is all about. Voyager held enough in the ratings to last but Seven of Nine gave Paramount something else they wanted too, a strong boost in merchandising. Seven's image made them LOTS of money!
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Last edited by exodus; February 28 2012 at 02:01 AM.
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Old February 28 2012, 01:58 AM   #125
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

The crying I spake of is reported to have been real.

What ever she said later on, Jennifer started crying while they fired her and didn't stop till some time after.

I doubt that they were tears of joy.
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; February 28 2012 at 03:23 AM.
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Old February 28 2012, 02:07 AM   #126
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
I crying i speak of is reported to have been real.

What ever she said later on, Jennifer started crying while they fired her and didn't stop till some time after.

I doubt that they were tears of joy.
Lots of people cry at the idea of leaving a job with people they enjoy working with. People cry moving out of shitty apt. just because for a while it was considered home. That's being human. That doesn't mean it wasn't a mutual choice.
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Old February 28 2012, 02:08 AM   #127
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

No! She was weeping in humiliation and grief!!
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Old February 28 2012, 02:16 AM   #128
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Next, y'all be telling me that it was just a lengthy teargasm.
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Old February 28 2012, 02:34 AM   #129
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
No! She was weeping in humiliation and grief!!
She left her job doing voice over work on the Men in Black cartoon at the same time. I think IMO it still holds water to what Lien herself said about not being interested in the field of acting anymore.

Jeri Taylor said they didn't want to continue with the character anymore. Why waste Jen Lien's time and talent in a part they admitted they were going to ignore? They did her a favor by letting her go so she could took for a more lucrative career. Wasn't one Beltran enough?
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Old February 28 2012, 03:20 AM   #130
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

exodus wrote: View Post
Wasn't one Beltran enough?
I would have paid to see his tears.
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Old February 28 2012, 03:29 AM   #131
Guy Gardener
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

52 thousandish dollars a year isn't acting.

That's doing what ever you have to do to maintain being still paid 52 thousandish dollars next year.

Acting is an artform, television is a massproducing conveyor belt

The Guy who played Reed in Enterprise was gob smacked by the cancellation because he'd just started his mortgage on a HUGE house on condition of Enterprise being around for at least another four years...
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Old February 28 2012, 03:30 AM   #132
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I highly doubt Dominic Keating was under the impression that Enterprise was going to run for another 4 years, he'd have to be completely clueless...
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Old February 28 2012, 03:33 AM   #133
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
52 thousandish dollars a year isn't acting.

That's doing what ever you have to do to maintain being still paid 52 thousandish dollars next year.

Acting is an artform, television is a massproducing conveyor belt

The Guy who played Reed in Enterprise was gob smacked by the cancellation because he'd just started his mortgage on a HUGE house on condition of Enterprise being around for at least another four years...
Why would you buy a HUGE house on 52 thousand dollars a year?
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Old February 28 2012, 03:38 AM   #134
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

By year three, sure.

But if Dom had signed the paperwork in season 2 or season one, it's an understandable error.

especially if he was one of those regular ordinary people that didn't know the difference between star wars and Star Trek, and just said "how long is this going to last?' and they told him that TNG, DS9 and voyager all lasted 7 years and a series of movies wasn't probably out of the question after year 7... After all, why else would they make him sign a seven year contract, which is what they al did I've always been told.
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Old February 28 2012, 03:42 AM   #135
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

teacake wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
52 thousandish dollars a year isn't acting.

That's doing what ever you have to do to maintain being still paid 52 thousandish dollars next year.

Acting is an artform, television is a massproducing conveyor belt

The Guy who played Reed in Enterprise was gob smacked by the cancellation because he'd just started his mortgage on a HUGE house on condition of Enterprise being around for at least another four years...
Why would you buy a HUGE house on 52 thousand dollars a year?
because i dropped a zero.

20ish grand an episode x 26 episodes is half a million dollars.

What a brain fart.

I need more carrots in my diet.
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