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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old February 27 2012, 12:24 PM   #106
teacock
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Also clearly gets off on being vicarious as he could stimulate his own hair any way he liked. Unless his creator had some huge firewall preventing that. Which sounds likely.
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Old February 27 2012, 12:35 PM   #107
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Did you meet Zimmerman?

If he couldn't have hair, then his dopplegangers would most certainly not. besides, if his dopplegangers did have hair, or even too much hair, the public at large would think that he had deep psychological problems starting with an inferiority complex.

I'm really surprised that by 2378 that there weren't update patches which forced the EMHs to take on Zimmermans new decrepid likeness... If the line hadn't been decommissioned already, that is.
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Old February 27 2012, 12:39 PM   #108
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Ha, that would have made sense. Can't have those youthful holograms running around looking virile when you're about to cark it.
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Old February 27 2012, 01:13 PM   #109
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
Just because she wore a skintight catsuit and had big boobs didn't mean she wasn't an interesting character. Seven was a breath of fresh air to the show, we got someone who was actually standing up to Janeway and providing desperately needed conflict in the show. And the story of her assimilation as a child, and how she grew to accept her humanity was arresting and interesting if not executed in the best manner.
In Season 4 the Seven character had potential. But for Season 5 onward Seven turned into a whiny brat who always needed pampering. If she didn't get her way then she would throw a temper-tantrum.

Seven reminded me of Eve and that line she said in "Mudd's Women' about how the miner wanted his wife to be. With Eve it was funny, but with Seven it got old real quick.
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Old February 27 2012, 05:38 PM   #110
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Here's what happened:

Voyager was slipping in the ratings by its third season so word came down from UPN to mix things. Make the show more action based and 'sex it up' to appeal to a wider audience.

It was Brannon Braga who came up with the idea of adding a 'borg babe' (his words not mine) to the cast. UPN and paramount loved the idea but the budget wouldn't allow for 10 regular cast members so one of the characters had to go.
All the actors (with the exception of Kate Mulgrew) had signed 7 year contracts, but like most shows, there's a clause in the contracts that allows the studio to opt out of an actor's contract at the start of a new season. The actors are generally paid out of certain percentage of the remainder of their contract when they're not renewed.

It was originally decided that Garrett Wang. Wang was notorious for being late and unprepared for filming and at one point late during the 3rd Season was suspended from the show for two weeks. Harry Kim was attacked by Species 8472 in Scorpion Part 1 and was going to be killed off in part 2. During the hiatus however, Wang was voted by People Magazine as one of the 50 sexiest people on TV. The producers felt they couldn't let this free publicity go so they decided to keep Wang on cast.

It's largely believed that Jeri Taylor decided to axe the Kes character because she felt that character wasn't working and hard to write for. Several members of the writing staff like Kenneth Biller and Jeo Menosky were not happy with the decision. And Kate Mulgrew was furious.

Originally Kes was going to stay on board for a few episodes. The Gift was supposed to be the 5th episode of the fourth season and Kes' mental abilities were supposed to gradually expand over the previous 4 episodes. However, Jennifer Lien's schedule made her only available for the first two episodes.
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Old February 27 2012, 08:53 PM   #111
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

did Voyager's ratings actually climb up that much after Jeri Ryan came on? And was it a lasting bump, or just a temporary one?
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Old February 27 2012, 10:31 PM   #112
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

barely.

I found a graph a while back.

Voyagers worst ratings where 20 times smaller than TNG's best ratings.
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Old February 27 2012, 10:42 PM   #113
Dr. Crusher
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

I was always curious about this point. I also thought Kes was an extremely interesting character with a lot of potential. I remember seeing "The Gift" at some point--probably after it originally aired--and being very confused by the change in the cast. I appreciate the very detailed explanations here.
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Old February 27 2012, 11:10 PM   #114
sonak
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
barely.

I found a graph a while back.

Voyagers worst ratings where 20 times smaller than TNG's best ratings.

well to be fair, TV had changed a lot from '87 to '95.
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Old February 27 2012, 11:13 PM   #115
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

The only thing Tim got wrong is that Brannon wanted a Bloke.

He said to the network... "S'cool, right?"

And they replied coldly "Give it tits."

You can talk about how wonderful Jeri is till the cows come homel, but that's nothing compared to the comedy of Tom and Harry teaching a MALE Seven of Nine how to pee standing up with accuracy.

(My mind just pulled up some files label Jim Carey going to the toilet in Me, Myself and irene.)

"I son't think that you can, that any one could write "Seven of Nine tertiary Adjunct to Unimatritrix One" in the snow all by themselves, and no I didn't mean that you should assimilate a small collective to get the job done."

Um.

Changed my mind.

There'd be nothing as funny as B'Elanna teaching a FEMALE Seven of Nine to pee standing up with accuracy.
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; February 27 2012 at 11:40 PM.
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Old February 27 2012, 11:17 PM   #116
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
barely.

I found a graph a while back.

Voyagers worst ratings where 20 times smaller than TNG's best ratings.

well to be fair, TV had changed a lot from '87 to '95.
From memory...

I think TNG's highest rated show was it's finale with a 19.

Voyager levelled off very quickly consistently scoring between 3 and 4.

So yeah, we're just comparing 94 to 95 mostly.

edit.

FOUND IT!

http://www.madmind.de/2009/05/02/all...in-two-charts/

the first ds9 got a 19.

the last TNG got a 17

the first voyager got a 13

the lowest Voyager got a 1.9.

The lowest Voyager is almost 9 times smaller than the highest TNG.



I blame Fan Fatigue.
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Last edited by Guy Gardener; February 27 2012 at 11:41 PM.
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Old February 27 2012, 11:25 PM   #117
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Voyager's ratings were never as bad that they only got 1/20th of what TNG got! Edit- oh you posted. Well that 1.9 was that "special extra episode" Juggernaut so that doesn't count! Their lowest ever rated regular episode was "Shattered" with a 2.8 rating compared to the tenth episode of TNG's 7th season which got a 12.1...so yeah pretty big drop off, although the number of households/viewers that a nielsen point represent does change with time so its not a completely 100% fair comparison. Although obviously a huge drop off of around 75%.

As for the impact Seven of Nine had on the ratings, very short lasting. Claims that the show was on the verge of being canceled and that she saved it are just flat out wrong.

http://users.telenet.be/WebTrek/Voy/...s/ratings.html
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Old February 27 2012, 11:39 PM   #118
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

timtonruben359 wrote: View Post
Here's what happened:

Voyager was slipping in the ratings by its third season so word came down from UPN to mix things. Make the show more action based and 'sex it up' to appeal to a wider audience.

It was Brannon Braga who came up with the idea of adding a 'borg babe' (his words not mine) to the cast. UPN and paramount loved the idea but the budget wouldn't allow for 10 regular cast members so one of the characters had to go.
All the actors (with the exception of Kate Mulgrew) had signed 7 year contracts, but like most shows, there's a clause in the contracts that allows the studio to opt out of an actor's contract at the start of a new season. The actors are generally paid out of certain percentage of the remainder of their contract when they're not renewed.

It was originally decided that Garrett Wang. Wang was notorious for being late and unprepared for filming and at one point late during the 3rd Season was suspended from the show for two weeks. Harry Kim was attacked by Species 8472 in Scorpion Part 1 and was going to be killed off in part 2. During the hiatus however, Wang was voted by People Magazine as one of the 50 sexiest people on TV. The producers felt they couldn't let this free publicity go so they decided to keep Wang on cast.

It's largely believed that Jeri Taylor decided to axe the Kes character because she felt that character wasn't working and hard to write for. Several members of the writing staff like Kenneth Biller and Jeo Menosky were not happy with the decision. And Kate Mulgrew was furious.

Originally Kes was going to stay on board for a few episodes. The Gift was supposed to be the 5th episode of the fourth season and Kes' mental abilities were supposed to gradually expand over the previous 4 episodes. However, Jennifer Lien's schedule made her only available for the first two episodes.
Well, Jeri Taylor wasn't telling the truth when she stated that "Kes wasn't working and was hard to write for". In fact, Mrs. Taylor herself managed to come up with two good Kes stories in the books "Mosaic" and "Pathways". Not to mention that Taylor and the other writers had no problems with writing stories for Kes in the first three seasons of the show.

"Jennifer Lien's schedule made her only available for the first two episodes". What schedule? Have I missed something?

As for the ratings, they went up when Seven joined but it didn't take long before they were lower than in the first three seasons.
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Old February 27 2012, 11:41 PM   #119
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

It also confused me that of all people, it was Jeri Taylor who thought getting rid of Kes was the best decision because as you said, she wrote stories for her in her books. Frankly I've never thought much of her as a writer and she is the one responsible for keeping those infamous Voyager holodecks just so she could have Janeway engage in her gothic holonovel.
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Old February 27 2012, 11:43 PM   #120
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

What if they'd had Kes assimilated and then freed in a double ep so Kes herself became the "borg babe"?
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