My homebrew kitbashes - Page 12

Albertese · February 21 2012, 03:43 PM

I've been following this thread for a while, and, even though I'm not a huge fan of cut-n-paste starship design, I have enjoyed seeing the progression of Ian Keldon's design sensibility. A lot of these designs don't strike me as very sound from an engineering standpoint. And (maybe my biggest complaint towards this sort of design thought process) does Starfleet really need thousands of ship that are odd re-arrangements of cruiser parts?

That said, I do like several of the more utilitarian designs you've got here. Most recently the Saint Christopher. I like the Lafayette and the George Washington, too. (Though the Lafayette seems too big to be an escort, judging by the windows...)

The DVD set of TOS contains an interview with Matt Jefferies from shortly before he passed away. In it, he tells a story of a time when he was at some sort of convention and was asked to judge a contest of people's original Star Trek models. He made a bunch of people upset because the model he picked as the winner was built by a clear amateur who probably hadn't even discovered sandpaper yet. And this over many very beautifully assembled Enterprise kitbashes. When asked why he picked that one, he replied that it was the only original one, the other were just reassembled parts. Besides her sister ships, there are not really any ships on TOS, Federation or otherwise which feature any Connie parts. I really like fan designs which show us something really new. Though, as has been said, cut-n-paste is a good beginning. I know I've made my share of them as a kid myself.

So, Ian Keldon, keep up the good work.

--Alex

Kaiser · February 21 2012, 08:49 PM

Ian Keldon wrote:

From "Jane's Fighting Starships" Communications to the Editor (October 2295 edition)

"A Response to: 'Aesir-class Battlecruisers: Soldiers that need to fade away' "
Submitted by Captain Sedak, Commanding Officer, USS Valhalla

With respect to Commodore Wainright's Communication to the Editor of August 2295, I find I must proffer the following rebuttal:

Waste is illogical. Decommissioning and scrapping the Aesir class would represent a significant sacrifice in terms of components, even taking recycling of components into account. The primary structural assemblies, particularly the hull frames, the reactor core bracings and the main plasma conduit supports are unique to this design, and unsuitable for use in any other class starship. Given that the average Aesir class hull has less than 10,000 hours flight time (out of a projected 173,000 flight hour primary endurance), it would be unfortunate to sacrifice hulls in such good condition when other options are available.

Down-powering the weapons configuration would place the ships within treaty stipulations, while retaining the "rapid response" capability represented by the Mark 6/PB-49 engine specifications. Multi-mission capacity could be enhanced by the substitution of a standard-size Type 9 primary hull in place of the Type 7 currently employed, with only slight modifications needed to the warp field configuration control software. The estimated loss of approximately .4932274 of one warp factor would be an entirely acceptable trade off.

From "Jane's Fighting Starships" Communications to the Editor (December 2295 edition)

"Regarding Aesir*-class refits"
Submitted by Commodore Augustus Wainright, Starfleet Plans and Policies Division

Captain Sedak's proposal, while admirable in it's intent, frankly does little to address the primary issues involved with the Aesir class program.

The substitution of a Type 9 saucer for the current Type 7 only exacerbates the mass situation, adding the better part of 17,000 metric tons to the ship. This would result in even further degraded maneuverability, and place additional strains on both the structural integrity and inertial damper systems, and exacerbating the power efficiency issue. Losing nearly 13% of it's sustained cruise speed and a reduced weapons capacity on top of all that makes even less sense than the proposal to retain the class "as is".

I must wonder if Captain Sedak's logic is "uncertain" where this issue is concerned.

to be honest id also Question his Logic...

Refit looks nice but if it performed worse than the original then i wouldnt bother to refit them..

Ian Keldon · February 22 2012, 04:39 AM

Well, Wainright was taking a bit of a cheap shot at the good Captain with that remark. To say that of a Vulcan is something of an insult as it implies he's letting his emotions get the better of him.

New one testing out a "harvested" part from a Vance ship.

USS Ramius

Kaiser · February 22 2012, 06:10 AM

looks awesome

and I like the Broadside Phaser bank

Ian Keldon · February 22 2012, 04:36 PM

Design wise, the Ramius is a bit sub-par. That flat-bottom saucer eliminates the usual emplacements. I had to include those broadside banks (more aft banks with some broadside coverage really) to help cover the ventral firing arcs. She still has significant blockages, unfortunately.

Ian Keldon · February 22 2012, 05:50 PM

One more...this one has one of my first serious attempts at doing a part myself with any detail to it (the nacelle pylons). I did borrow some of the detailing from a Vance part.

Dallas-class perimeter action vessel

Kaiser · February 22 2012, 10:34 PM

looks good to me

Bernard Guignard · February 23 2012, 01:37 PM

you are coming along nicely young padawan

KNH · February 24 2012, 04:29 AM

A great step towards finding your own style and direction. I love it!

publiusr · February 24 2012, 09:35 PM

A cross between Valhalla and the Galaxy class would be nice. The super saucer and the nice big secondary hull, but with raised nacelles of the Valhalla.

I don't mind kitbashes at all--the only thing that needs original drawings are the nacelle support pylons. There needs to be some new mersions of those so as to keep things organic.

Cranked arrow designs where the nacelles either emerge from where they do on the Refit--or a bit lower down and back from that extended secondary hull.

The nacelle pylons then flow back, then up and back at a different angle, so as to keep the rakish look. Simple triangular nacelle suports clash with the fluid secondary hull. Those are best for Stargazer designs whereoriginally seen--in their industrial setting.

JES · February 27 2012, 01:29 AM

This little attempt is a significant step. Making a new part, even a simple one, is a very important step. I have also noticed that in the last couple of works, there seems to be more of an attempt to get rid of any signs of copy and pasting, which I consider to be essential. And I also appreciate how you are also adding smaller registry markings the the nacelles ends.

One of the next steps that I would focus on is the shade of the color you use for your parts and registries, so that they are too light or, specifically in your case, too dark or bold. I like how the registry for the Valhalla isn't too dark for example.

I would also try to notice the details of the parts that you use. What I do as I look at other people's works is play around with the details in my head, and try to come up with variations. I draw details and curves that draw my eye in the air, and try to think of new details for future designs. They are usually similar, but not identical. Depending on how good you are at drawing, you might even want to try to brainstorm ideas by sketching. The harder part might be figuring out how to apply your ideas in-program within a reasonable amount of time, so I would pace yourself, and try to improve your attention to detail little by little, for either every ship you do, or every batch.

Ian Keldon · February 27 2012, 08:42 AM

The contrast issue is something that crops up from time to time...not sure how it happens or how to fix it. I think it may have something to do with downconverting to jpeg on some big files, or some weird thing Photobucket is doing to them on the upload. I just don't know.

Tonight's entry is the Mosby class scout. I know on the surface it seems like a simple modification of the bog-standard Ranger class from FASA, but it took me a LOT of work to put together from parts I'd "salvaged" from the Vance Ranger. I had to rework the pylons a bit to make them larger to fit the configuration I had in mind. I moved the phaser emplacements and added to them, and I did a resize of the bridge dome to bring the hump more in line with the rest of the ship scale-wise. All in all, it took the better part of 2 hours and ~30 layers to get everything the way I wanted it.

Mosby-class scout

Kaiser · February 27 2012, 10:38 AM

Looks very good and better than any other redraw of the FASA Ranger Class

Ian Keldon · February 27 2012, 04:21 PM

Vance gets all the credit for the basic parts of course...all I did was redraw a few bits here and there (such as making the pylon a bit longer than it was before).

Because pulbisur asked, and I had nothing better to do, here's a Galaxy/Valhalla hybrid. I went ahead and labeled it the Galaxy.

Not sure I agree that she looks better with her nacelles "up"...

publiusr · February 27 2012, 10:33 PM

Thank you for that. It looks more even and balanced to me. It might look better with different nacelle supports.

BTW The Mosby is far better than the stock Ranger, which looks more like a tiny SFB Fast patrol boat than anything else....

February 21 2012, 03:43 PM	#166
Albertese Fleet Captain Location: Portland, OR	Re: My homebrew kitbashes I've been following this thread for a while, and, even though I'm not a huge fan of cut-n-paste starship design, I have enjoyed seeing the progression of Ian Keldon's design sensibility. A lot of these designs don't strike me as very sound from an engineering standpoint. And (maybe my biggest complaint towards this sort of design thought process) does Starfleet really need thousands of ship that are odd re-arrangements of cruiser parts? That said, I do like several of the more utilitarian designs you've got here. Most recently the Saint Christopher. I like the Lafayette and the George Washington, too. (Though the Lafayette seems too big to be an escort, judging by the windows...) The DVD set of TOS contains an interview with Matt Jefferies from shortly before he passed away. In it, he tells a story of a time when he was at some sort of convention and was asked to judge a contest of people's original Star Trek models. He made a bunch of people upset because the model he picked as the winner was built by a clear amateur who probably hadn't even discovered sandpaper yet. And this over many very beautifully assembled Enterprise kitbashes. When asked why he picked that one, he replied that it was the only original one, the other were just reassembled parts. Besides her sister ships, there are not really any ships on TOS, Federation or otherwise which feature any Connie parts. I really like fan designs which show us something really new. Though, as has been said, cut-n-paste is a good beginning. I know I've made my share of them as a kid myself. So, Ian Keldon, keep up the good work. --Alex __________________ Check out my website: www.goldtoothstudio.squarespace.com

February 22 2012, 04:39 AM	#168
Ian Keldon Fleet Captain	Re: My homebrew kitbashes Well, Wainright was taking a bit of a cheap shot at the good Captain with that remark. To say that of a Vulcan is something of an insult as it implies he's letting his emotions get the better of him. New one testing out a "harvested" part from a Vance ship. USS Ramius

February 22 2012, 06:10 AM	#169
Kaiser Rear Admiral Location: Boyertown, PA as of July 2011	Re: My homebrew kitbashes looks awesome and I like the Broadside Phaser bank __________________ https://www.facebook.com/groups/112860258811333/ For all your Sci-fi ship model and mini goodness 3DS Friend code: 0731-4800-6817

February 22 2012, 04:36 PM	#170
Ian Keldon Fleet Captain	Re: My homebrew kitbashes Design wise, the Ramius is a bit sub-par. That flat-bottom saucer eliminates the usual emplacements. I had to include those broadside banks (more aft banks with some broadside coverage really) to help cover the ventral firing arcs. She still has significant blockages, unfortunately.

February 22 2012, 05:50 PM	#171
Ian Keldon Fleet Captain	Re: My homebrew kitbashes One more...this one has one of my first serious attempts at doing a part myself with any detail to it (the nacelle pylons). I did borrow some of the detailing from a Vance part. Dallas-class perimeter action vessel

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

February 22 2012, 10:34 PM	#172
Kaiser Rear Admiral Location: Boyertown, PA as of July 2011	Re: My homebrew kitbashes looks good to me __________________ https://www.facebook.com/groups/112860258811333/ For all your Sci-fi ship model and mini goodness 3DS Friend code: 0731-4800-6817

February 23 2012, 01:37 PM	#173
Bernard Guignard Captain Location: Ontario	Re: My homebrew kitbashes you are coming along nicely young padawan __________________ Live Long and Prosper Technically Bernard Guignard Project Manager TreknoGraphx http://groups.yahoo.com/group/trekno...yguid=89237652

February 24 2012, 04:29 AM	#174
KNH Commander Location: KNH	Re: My homebrew kitbashes A great step towards finding your own style and direction. I love it! __________________ 100. If my ship is whisked to the far side of the galaxy, leaving us with a seventy-year journey home, and a super-being offers to take us home instantly in exchange for having his baby, I'll agree and ask what we can get for two babies.

February 24 2012, 09:35 PM	#175
publiusr Fleet Captain	Re: My homebrew kitbashes A cross between Valhalla and the Galaxy class would be nice. The super saucer and the nice big secondary hull, but with raised nacelles of the Valhalla. I don't mind kitbashes at all--the only thing that needs original drawings are the nacelle support pylons. There needs to be some new mersions of those so as to keep things organic. Cranked arrow designs where the nacelles either emerge from where they do on the Refit--or a bit lower down and back from that extended secondary hull. The nacelle pylons then flow back, then up and back at a different angle, so as to keep the rakish look. Simple triangular nacelle suports clash with the fluid secondary hull. Those are best for Stargazer designs whereoriginally seen--in their industrial setting.

February 27 2012, 01:29 AM	#176
JES Captain Location: Ocoee, Florida	Re: My homebrew kitbashes This little attempt is a significant step. Making a new part, even a simple one, is a very important step. I have also noticed that in the last couple of works, there seems to be more of an attempt to get rid of any signs of copy and pasting, which I consider to be essential. And I also appreciate how you are also adding smaller registry markings the the nacelles ends. One of the next steps that I would focus on is the shade of the color you use for your parts and registries, so that they are too light or, specifically in your case, too dark or bold. I like how the registry for the Valhalla isn't too dark for example. I would also try to notice the details of the parts that you use. What I do as I look at other people's works is play around with the details in my head, and try to come up with variations. I draw details and curves that draw my eye in the air, and try to think of new details for future designs. They are usually similar, but not identical. Depending on how good you are at drawing, you might even want to try to brainstorm ideas by sketching. The harder part might be figuring out how to apply your ideas in-program within a reasonable amount of time, so I would pace yourself, and try to improve your attention to detail little by little, for either every ship you do, or every batch.

February 27 2012, 08:42 AM	#177
Ian Keldon Fleet Captain	Re: My homebrew kitbashes The contrast issue is something that crops up from time to time...not sure how it happens or how to fix it. I think it may have something to do with downconverting to jpeg on some big files, or some weird thing Photobucket is doing to them on the upload. I just don't know. Tonight's entry is the Mosby class scout. I know on the surface it seems like a simple modification of the bog-standard Ranger class from FASA, but it took me a LOT of work to put together from parts I'd "salvaged" from the Vance Ranger. I had to rework the pylons a bit to make them larger to fit the configuration I had in mind. I moved the phaser emplacements and added to them, and I did a resize of the bridge dome to bring the hump more in line with the rest of the ship scale-wise. All in all, it took the better part of 2 hours and ~30 layers to get everything the way I wanted it. Mosby-class scout

February 27 2012, 10:38 AM	#178
Kaiser Rear Admiral Location: Boyertown, PA as of July 2011	Re: My homebrew kitbashes Looks very good and better than any other redraw of the FASA Ranger Class __________________ https://www.facebook.com/groups/112860258811333/ For all your Sci-fi ship model and mini goodness 3DS Friend code: 0731-4800-6817

February 27 2012, 04:21 PM	#179
Ian Keldon Fleet Captain	Re: My homebrew kitbashes Vance gets all the credit for the basic parts of course...all I did was redraw a few bits here and there (such as making the pylon a bit longer than it was before). Because pulbisur asked, and I had nothing better to do, here's a Galaxy/Valhalla hybrid. I went ahead and labeled it the Galaxy. Not sure I agree that she looks better with her nacelles "up"...

February 27 2012, 10:33 PM	#180
publiusr Fleet Captain	Re: My homebrew kitbashes Thank you for that. It looks more even and balanced to me. It might look better with different nacelle supports. BTW The Mosby is far better than the stock Ranger, which looks more like a tiny SFB Fast patrol boat than anything else....