Best and Worst Villains in a Comic Book Movie?

[JD]

I'd watch that movie. And my only familiarity with the FF comes from the first movie, and the first two or three episodes of FF: World's Greatest Heroes.

[Turtletrekker]

Set Harth wrote:

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Well, one of those is.

Ha! I see what you did there!

[Turtletrekker]

JD wrote:

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I'd watch that movie. And my only familiarity with the FF comes from the first movie, and the first two or three episodes of FF: World's Greatest Heroes.

OT: JD-- I can't recommend the current Johnathon Hickman run enough. Also--any trade you can find from John Byrne's run.

[the G-man]

JD wrote:

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I'd watch that movie...

Thanks.

[the G-man]

Set Harth wrote:

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Well, one of those is.

Damn. I didn't even realize I'd done that. Well played, sir.

[Greg Cox]

the G-man wrote:

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I don't want to put words in Ian's mouth here but I suspect he's one of "those fans," who thinks that--just because Chris Nolan's gritty take works on a down to earth character on Batman--audiences want all their superhero movies to be "realistic."

Which works great for Batman, but doesn't necessarily apply to the Fantastic Four.

When your lead characters can stretch, burst into flame, turn invisible, and are made of lumpy orange rocks, I don't think you need to worry about how comic-booky your villain is!

That ship has sailed . . . .

[captcalhoun]

the point............................................. ... Ian Keldon

[stj]

The G-Man scenario writes out the family aspect of the Fantastic Four, as well as rewriting Reed into a fairly standard action hero going after bad guys. It does salvage cool Doom. The family aspect is what I've always liked about the Fantstic Four and for me, the movies kept that and sacrificed cool Doom. I found that an acceptable tradeoff.

[the G-man]

How does it write out the family aspect? It is exactly the same as the comic book and the first movie: Reed is a scientist, Sue is his girlfriend, Jonny is Sue's brother and Ben is Reed's best friend/pilot.

[stj]

If Reed is getting intelligence from the government, he's not the independent guy, he's some sort of agent. And his girlfriend, her brother and his best friend are not going to be his posse on the government dime. Nor do I understand why best friend, girlfriend and her brother hang with this obsessed dude with the mystery motivation to go into space/negative zone. Kind of dysfunctional. To me, Fantastic Four is all about the functional. Incidentally, wouldn't the US simply try to murder Doom with a drone or an exploding cigar or some such? Why screw around with Reed at all?

It's a question of priorities apparently. I think the family aspect is more important and accepted the lamer Doom in the movies, and enjoyed them because they got the family right. . If the cool villain is more important the Fantastic Four movies are complete losers. This is pretty obvious and not much else to say.

[captcalhoun]

the way to do Doom is the way UF4 did it.

have him be like classic Doom, but in the modern day. a brilliant scientist who competes with Reed, beleives he's better than Reed, arrogantly messes with Reed's shit (in this case, the teleporter device Ultimate Reed created) and have that cause the accident that gives them powers, with Doom then going bat-shit nuts causing trouble trying to kill the nascent F4. Smush the first 2 arcs together into one movie and Robert is your paternal ancestor's male sibling.

[the G-man]

stj wrote:

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If Reed is getting intelligence from the government, he's not the independent guy, he's some sort of agent.

Which is, even if true, completely irrelevant to whether the family dynamic exists.

Furthermore, Reed working with the government is not something I came up with. It was always there:

• When the government threatened to cut off its partial funding of the project, Reed elected to embark on an immediate test flight. Ben opposed the idea, warning that the ship's shielding might prove inadequate against intense forms of cosmic radiation. Nevertheless, Reed persuaded his old friend to serve as pilot. Sue and her adolescent brother, Johnny, insisted on accompanying the would-be history-makers. The four stole into the launch facility, boarded the starship and blasted off in pursuit of scientific glory. They intended to travel to another star system and back, but a solar flare temporarily boosted the intensity of the ionizing radiation in Earth's Van Allen belt. Cosmic rays bombarded the ship's cabin, irradiating the four passengers and slagging the controls. Ben was forced to abort the flight and return to Earth.

And his girlfriend, her brother and his best friend are not going to be his posse on the government dime.

Hold on. You were going on about the movie and the family dynamic therein but in that movie, the four all worked together. Now you're against that?

Furthermore, the government is a lot more likely to allow Sue and Johnny to be hanging around if they are actually employed on the project.

Nor do I understand why best friend, girlfriend and her brother hang with this obsessed dude with the mystery motivation to go into space/negative zone. Kind of dysfunctional.

Yes, because families are never dysfunctional or loyal when maybe they shouldn't be.

To me, Fantastic Four is all about the functional.

You haven't read a lot of FF comic books have you? Ben and Johnny bicker constantly and physically fight. Ben often resents Reed for what happened to mutate him and Sue and Reed have broken up several times, in part because of Reed's obsessive nature.

Incidentally, wouldn't the US simply try to murder Doom with a drone or an exploding cigar or some such? Why screw around with Reed at all?

Dr. Doom? The Latverian super scientist with an army of superpowered robots at his command and "SDI" style defenses surrounding the kingdom? That Doom?

It's a question of priorities apparently. I think the family aspect is more important ...

And, again, I changed about nothing about their family status. Reed is still the obsessed scientist (only now he's obsessed with stopping Doom, instead of beating the commies [comic books] or capturing the cosmic rays [movie]), Sue is still his girlfriend, Johnny Sue's brother and Ben the best friend.

[stj]

the G-man wrote:

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Now you're against that?...

You haven't read a lot of FF comic books have you?

Dr. Doom? The Latverian super scientist with an army of superpowered robots at his command and "SDI" style defenses surrounding the kingdom? That Doom?

The answers.

Working with Reed on his project to do something comprehensible and historically significant is one thing. Working for the government under Reed to beat out some guy they don't know anything about is something else entirely. The government wouldn't put his girlfriend and her brother on the payroll and he'd have enough problems hiring Ben, as most scientists don't need bodyguards, not being Iranians. Without Sue and Johnny it's not the Fantastic Four.

Read Fantastic Four as a kid from about six issues in up until the early Seventies. Reed wasn't obsessive about offing some dude, he was obsessive about scientific discovery. Reed was never some maverick cop gunning for the serial killer, nor was Sue some Roman wife encouraging her husband to go forth and conquer.

The US government isn't going to subcontract murder to an absent-minded nepotist because they feel so inadequate when faced with Doom's might. Nor frankly does it seem very probable they could even grasp the supposed threat.

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Trek4Ever wrote:

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Galactus-all they showed was a storm cloud!

If Galactus ever gets a decent treatment onscreen it will probably be the Ultimate version or something similar. The 'classic' Galactus is just too cartoonish.

[Greg Cox]

Mr. Laser Beam wrote:

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If Galactus ever gets a decent treatment onscreen it will probably be the Ultimate version or something similar. The 'classic' Galactus is just too cartoonish.

I would have compromised and maybe given the storm cloud a face resembling the Kirby vision. Sort of like the Great and Powerful Oz in the MGM movie.

But, again, when your heroes are Mr. Fantastic, the Human Torch, and the ever-lovin', blue-eyed Thing, what exactly constitutes "too cartoony"?

Ben is a big orange rock monster, for Aunt Petunia's sake. And Reed can stretch like Plastic Man . . . .