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Old February 24 2012, 11:10 PM   #61
C.E. Evans
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Sandoval wrote: View Post
Kes is still wearing a catsuit in that picture.

You just need to face up to that fact.
You need to face up to the fact that it's not really that different from any other women's outfit worn during 24th-Century Trek. Nearly all of them were formfitting one-piece "catsuits."
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Old February 24 2012, 11:18 PM   #62
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

could someone pin a statement to the top of the voyager section or something saying the whole 'kim was meant to leave, but the poll said no, so kes was picked etc, etc' because this topic comes up so often and seems pretty much common knowledge on here

and there doesnt seem to be anything new to say on the subject.
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Old February 24 2012, 11:40 PM   #63
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

But this is how we prove that we know everything.

i've been here for ten years, and I only only found out a month ago that Kim had been banned form the set for chronic lateness, which meant that there were kimless episodes out there on purpose and not accidentally Kimless.

(Did Dawson get paid for episodes she wasn't in as her maternity leave?)

I mean what's worse for Garret?

(Garret is an anagram for regret. his parents could just tell something was wrong as soon as he was born. Regret Dick Wang. (his middle name is Richard. For realz.) The poor bastard didn't stand a chance... Okay "Gerret" but it's fricking close.)

Banned form the set, or an episode where he's paid 20 grand to wander around in the back ground with no lines like he's an extra because the screenwriter thought everyone else was more interesting to write for?
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Old February 24 2012, 11:58 PM   #64
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
(Did Dawson get paid for episodes she wasn't in as her maternity leave?)
If I understand it correctly, actors in the opening credits get paid a set amount whether they are in an episode or not. They only get additional repeat royalties for episodes in which they appear.

What made Grace Lee Whitney's contract so expensive in TOS was that she was paid for the first 13 episodes, whether in them or not. And the writers only put her in six. Nichelle Nichols and Majel Barrett were "cheaper" in that they were only paid the weeks/days they worked.

So, yes, Roxann Dawson would have been paid all seven years, including her maternity leave. And extra when she directed.
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Old February 25 2012, 02:50 AM   #65
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Sandoval wrote: View Post
Kes is still wearing a catsuit in that picture.
You just need to face up to that fact.
You need to face up to the fact that it's not really that different from any other women's outfit worn during 24th-Century Trek. Nearly all of them were formfitting one-piece "catsuits."
So you just admitted that Kes is in fact wearing a catsuit then. A catsuit is defined as a close fitting women's jumpsuit, exactly what many of the Trek characters wore. It just happens that Seven's was much much more elastic and tighter than others. Personally I preferred the catsuits of Kes/T'Pol since the material was nicer.



See, there's her red catsuit.

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
The drug-use rumours (whether true or not), set off by her bizarre public appearances were quite rampant at the time. Sure, only a tiny percentage of viewers actually attend conventions, but the negative publicity for the Star Trek brand was potentially just as wide-spreading in the media as the more positive one of Kim being named as one of 50 Beautiful People.
Well I can't really speak for what it was like back in 1996 but there are false rumors about celebrities all the time, doesn't mean they get fired from their tv shows though.

Regarding writing for Kes. I can definitely see how it was EASIER to "write" for Harry Kim since he could easily get a ton of filler lines each epiode, but it was clear the writers weren't interested in his actual character. As Wang has said himself, Kim was a cardboard cutout whose main function was to just spout out shield percentages and such. Kes was a character who didn't fit into that easily definable Trek role and as such the writers needed to make an actual EFFORT with her, which was clearly too much for some of them - although not all, as I said, its obvious Kenneth Biller didn't approve of getting rid of Kes, no small coincidence since he wrote her best episode that was the best use of all that made her unique "Before and After".

junxon wrote: View Post
could someone pin a statement to the top of the voyager section or something saying the whole 'kim was meant to leave, but the poll said no, so kes was picked etc, etc' because this topic comes up so often and seems pretty much common knowledge on here

and there doesnt seem to be anything new to say on the subject.
Now really, if we all stopped talking about things which had been addressed before, the forum may as well close down.
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Old February 25 2012, 03:43 AM   #66
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
Sandoval wrote: View Post
Kes is still wearing a catsuit in that picture.
You just need to face up to that fact.
You need to face up to the fact that it's not really that different from any other women's outfit worn during 24th-Century Trek. Nearly all of them were formfitting one-piece "catsuits."
So you just admitted that Kes is in fact wearing a catsuit then.
If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that I said if Kes' outfit is considered a "catsuit," then almost every woman since TNG has been wearing a "catsuit" in some form or another. Therefore, it's nothing out of the ordinary.
A catsuit is defined as a close fitting women's jumpsuit, exactly what many of the Trek characters wore.
See above comment.
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Old February 25 2012, 04:01 AM   #67
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Yeah so fine, you agree she was wearing a catsuit then whereas earlier you had said it wasn't. Great.
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Old February 25 2012, 04:04 AM   #68
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
there are false rumors about celebrities all the time, doesn't mean they get fired from their tv shows though.
Tell that to Charlie Sheen. (Ah, those weren't false rumours.)
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Old February 25 2012, 04:08 AM   #69
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
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C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
I don't think so. Jennifer Lien's a fine actress, but her character really didn't have much to do other than be somebody's girlfriend. I do think they were trying to find things for her to do like be the Doctor's assistant, be Tuvok's unofficial apprentice, and even have her be a gardener.
It should be noted that the "catsuit" was in an episode in which her character was possessed by somebody else. Afterwards, the so-called catsuit disappeared.

As far as the other episodes, they had to something with her, because the character was supposed to have a very short life-span, so she really should have matured by then.
In your opinion, perhaps, but I'll have to side with the studio and producers on this one.

Well, the Doctor's main assistant is a pretty big job by itself.
Do you remember who was his main assistant after Kes left?
Plus, her rapidly developing psychic abilities offered plenty of storylines-she was no more difficult of a character to write for than Troi was on TNG.
I actually think they gave Kes psychic abilities in an attempt to make her like Troi--to be able to sense the presence or intentions of various mysterious aliens.
She had more to do at the point when she left than Neelix did. He wasn't even needed as a guide at that point. All he had left was being a cook and a self-appointed "morale officer."

Kes was more valuable to the crew than he was.
The studio and the producers felt differently.

his main assistant apart from Kes was Tom Paris, both while she was there and after she left. And yes, I get that your real point was "it's not that important a job because we hardly ever saw an assistant for him after Kes left," but actually I think giving Holodoc an assistant added to realism, and having him work virtually solo in the later part of the series was kind of silly.
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Old February 25 2012, 04:11 AM   #70
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
I think giving Holodoc an assistant added to realism, and having him work virtually solo in the later part of the series was kind of silly.
On a potentially 70-year return journey, training up as a nurse the one character with only seven years left on their lifespan was DUMB.
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Old February 25 2012, 04:13 AM   #71
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post
I think giving Holodoc an assistant added to realism, and having him work virtually solo in the later part of the series was kind of silly.
On a potentially 70-year return journey, training up as a nurse the one character with only seven years left on their lifespan was DUMB.

I think the dumb part was writing a character in with a nine-year lifespan.
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Old February 25 2012, 04:24 AM   #72
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

sonak wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
sonak wrote: View Post


Well, the Doctor's main assistant is a pretty big job by itself.
Do you remember who was his main assistant after Kes left?
I actually think they gave Kes psychic abilities in an attempt to make her like Troi--to be able to sense the presence or intentions of various mysterious aliens.
She had more to do at the point when she left than Neelix did. He wasn't even needed as a guide at that point. All he had left was being a cook and a self-appointed "morale officer."

Kes was more valuable to the crew than he was.
The studio and the producers felt differently.

his main assistant apart from Kes was Tom Paris, both while she was there and after she left. And yes, I get that your real point was "it's not that important a job because we hardly ever saw an assistant for him after Kes left," but actually I think giving Holodoc an assistant added to realism, and having him work virtually solo in the later part of the series was kind of silly.
It exposes a flaw in the idea of EMH as the ship's chief medical officer. It implies that the Voyager had no other doctors in the medical staff at all or that they were all conveniently killed at the same time, including those that may not have been on duty at the time the ship was tossed into the Delta Quadrant.

But even a junior lieutenant in the medical department could have taken over as chief medical officer with the EMH as his or her assistant.
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Old February 25 2012, 04:34 AM   #73
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It implies that... they were all conveniently killed at the same time.
That's exactly what happened.
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Old February 25 2012, 04:41 AM   #74
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

They were golfing on the holodeck, duh.
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Old February 25 2012, 04:44 AM   #75
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Re: Why was Kes written off the show?

Therin of Andor wrote: View Post
C.E. Evans wrote: View Post
It implies that... they were all conveniently killed at the same time.
That's exactly what happened.
That's no different from saying all the engineering staff died or that everyone in the science department died. They really had to make it so that every single medical officer aboard the Voyager had to die no matter where they were on the ship.
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