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Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old February 22 2012, 02:37 AM   #1111
Guy Gardener
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Imagine if some French guy, for the good of the planet neutralized all the nuclear power stations in America and Russia.

Hero or terrorist?

You know what with America and Russia turning to into third world countries over night, becuase no ones toys or heating works. The population would halve within 10 years if tey didn't start a war and acually use other countries like juiceboxes.

That's what I liked about the new The Day the Earth Stood Still... "i've come to save the world by destroying humanity, a life supporting ecosystem is far more important than any one life form crawling across it."
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Old February 22 2012, 03:15 AM   #1112
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Re: Does It Get Better???

exodus wrote: View Post
That happens after decades of time has passed.
The Federation doesn't know the Nazi' or what they did during WWII. That's something in history books that happened centuries ago to them.
Well hopefully the Federation reads their history books.
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Old February 22 2012, 03:32 AM   #1113
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Re: Does It Get Better???

exodus wrote: View Post
AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
teacake wrote: View Post
Yes but Tom broke HER rules. Janeway just breaks far away starfleet rules (and gives her crew opportunities to object and have it noted). You can't have complete insubordination. I suspect he would have been more harshly treated back in the Alpha quadrant but it would be bad for crew morale to do so.
I say screw Janeway and her ridiculous rules. I applaud Tom for showing courage and trying to do what he believed was right. He handled the situation extremely well. I would have acted no differently.
I supposed the Caretaker felt that way before his tampering with a biosphere destroyed an enter ecosystem.
The person that represented the entire body of that civilization told Janeway and Tom "No". Tom listens to the guy that had the representation of nobody.
That government could see such a thing as an act of terrorism. Tom would have gotten everyone on Voyager executed.
If Janeway breaks a rule of government, sh would ask that only she be blamed and negotiate her crew be released. Tom as a crewman has no such barginning chip. His actions doom everyone.
That's one way to look at it. The other way to look at it is if someone didn't act immediately the planet was doomed. Because Tom's attempt to save the planet was thwarted by Janeway, it's more than likely that the planet ended up being destroyed and all of the inhabitants killed.
We have no way of knowing what eventually happened, but I'm willing to bet that because of Janeway's foolish decision the whole alien population was destroyed.
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Old February 22 2012, 03:44 AM   #1114
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Re: Does It Get Better???

JRoss wrote: View Post
AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
Hi folks.

I just recently began watching Voyager on Netflix. So far I am 13 episodes into the show (14 if you count Caretaker as 2 episodes), and while I am enjoying the show and I like the cast, there hasn't been a single episode that has really, really stood out from the rest. Episodes have ranged from below average (Emanations, Cathexis), to average (Caretaker, Heroes and Demons), to slightly above average (Parallax, Prime Factors, State of Flux). The best episode so far has been Eye of the Needle with the Romulan scientist. While it was a very good episode, it's still nowhere near as good as some of the first season episodes from TNG (Datalore, The Neutral Zone) and DS9 (Duet, In the Hands of the Prophets). So, without spoiling anything, can you folks tell me if Voyager is going to significantly improve? Don't get me wrong, I am enjoying this show quite a bit, but I just don't feel like the writers have taken too many risks. There haven't been any standout episodes so far, and that makes me a little worried. Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me, and remember: NO SPOILERS!
No.
Thank you for the very insightful viewpoint!
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Old February 22 2012, 10:11 AM   #1115
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I'm right, though.
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Old February 22 2012, 10:42 AM   #1116
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Re: Does It Get Better???

No.
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Old February 22 2012, 11:14 AM   #1117
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Yes he is.

Voyager from end to beginning was consistent.

If you thought it started bad, it continued to be that bad.

if you thought Voyager was awesome in the beginning, it continued to be awesome.

There was no amazing drop off or rise in quality baring a few statistical deviances.

More so, I'd say that this status quo began around about season 4 of TNG and continued till the final episode of Enterprise.
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Old February 22 2012, 11:27 AM   #1118
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I do not wish to accept this as it makes all my evangelism futile.

FUTILE.

Some truths are too unpalatable.
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Old February 22 2012, 02:31 PM   #1119
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Don't worry, we'll always have Living Witness.

(And Threshhold.)
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Old February 22 2012, 03:24 PM   #1120
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I'm close to half way through season 5 so far, and here's what I think:

Season One was just okay. Not very good, not terrible either. Kind of bland.
Season Two was inconsistent, but when it was good (i.e. The Kazon Arc) it was REALLY good. And when it was bad it was quite painful to watch (Elogium, anyone?)
Season Three was inconsistent like Season Two, but it had a handful of real gems mixed within some pretty bad episodes.
Season Four was the first season, IMO, that was consistently good. Hardly any bad episodes at all. Very enjoyable, and definitely the best season up to that point.
Season Five is too early to judge because I've only seen maybe 10 episodes, but so far I think it's a little bit better than Season Four.

So, in short, I do think the show is improving.
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Old February 22 2012, 04:53 PM   #1121
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Re: Does It Get Better???

You imagined the Kazon arc. They're barely there and it wasn't an organized effort to forward their agenda.

Martha was in 13 episodes on Voyager.

Season 1: 5 episodes, however 4 of those episodes were as a Bajoran extra and no one, not even Berman suspected her destiny till they started writing State of Flux.

Season 2: 5 episodes.

Season 3: 2 episodes.

So really that's 12 appearances out of 68 episodes accounting for the first 3 seasons, Seska was forcing the Kazon to bump heads with Janeway.

...

Morn was in 91 episodes.
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Old February 22 2012, 05:04 PM   #1122
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Re: Does It Get Better???

Say what you will about the Kazon Arc, but I still consider it to be the high point of Voyager's entire run. State of Flux, Maneuvers, Alliances, Investigations, and Basics Part 1 and 2 make for a really exciting and entertaining run of episodes. (I didn't include Initiations because it made the Kazon look like Klingon wannabes).
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Old February 22 2012, 08:41 PM   #1123
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Re: Does It Get Better???

I don't think its true to say that Voyager didn't change, I really do think the quality of the writing did improve from season 4. However I don't think the showrunning improved at all, it got worse in season 3, improved a bit in 4, and then was in unambitious autopilot for 5, 6 and 7.
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Old February 22 2012, 11:48 PM   #1124
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Re: Does It Get Better???

AdmiralScreed wrote: View Post
Say what you will about the Kazon Arc, but I still consider it to be the high point of Voyager's entire run. State of Flux, Maneuvers, Alliances, Investigations, and Basics Part 1 and 2 make for a really exciting and entertaining run of episodes. (I didn't include Initiations because it made the Kazon look like Klingon wannabes).
An arc, to me, is like a ball in flight. starts on the ground, flies into the air, higher, then begins to descend, and finally collides with the earth again.

Jonas had an arc.

Nobody spy. Hero spy. Unmasked spy. Dead spy.

Which took three episodes to play out one after the other.

And what Tom was doing int he background at the time was really interesting.

The Kazon stories were just things that happened haphazardly in no particular order, barely in relation to one another, until Seskas death, not that`ever stopped her.

We're going to get you! Janeway stops them.

Several months of something else.

We're going to get you! Janeway stops them.

Several months of something else.

We're going to get you! Suder stops them.

Don't get me wrong, I think that the Kazon were the best villains on Voyager and most thought out villains on Voyager, but that's not saying much really.
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Old February 23 2012, 12:30 AM   #1125
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Re: Does It Get Better???

teacake wrote: View Post
Facts are neutral. How you got those facts could be evil which makes your actions evil, not the facts. Dumb, dumb, dumb dilemma.
Facts aren't completely neutral. Accepting knowledge obtained through unethical means justifies the unethical actions as if they were acceptable. You can't change the past and can't control the future, but you can avoid encouraging the repetition.


You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
"Nothing Human" is an illogically written piece of horsesh*t in my opinion. Nothing about it makes sense to me whatsoever

....

Personally I think it was trying too hard to shoe-in some kind of important message about medical experimentation but forgot to make it make sense.
It felt forced like they were trying to pull off TNG but forgot they weren't TNG. I give them props for trying but that's it.

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
Imagine if some French guy, for the good of the planet neutralized all the nuclear power stations in America and Russia.

Hero or terrorist?
I'd go with hypocrite since France generates nearly 80% of its electricity from nuclear plants. They rely on nuclear more than any other country.

tighr wrote: View Post
Lt. Stadi would have been helpful to the mission had she not gotten herself killed in Caretaker. She was a Betazoid, too.
Stadi would have been helpful to the show, imo. Alicia Coppola was smoking hot in her limited scenes.
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