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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Voyager

Voyager There's coffee in this forum!

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Old January 4 2012, 12:06 AM   #421
CaptainMatt
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

I will go on record and say that I do NOT believe Voyager weakened the Borg. It was always more a matter of overkill than weakening them in my regard anyway. The Borg were not meant to appear all the time on TV Trek, they were meant to be used a certain way and that way became forever altered by the time the feature film First Contact came along and introduced the Queen and, indeed, more horrific ways to assimilate people that contradicted earlier stories and suggested ideas. Voyager simply took the ball and ran with it with having them on all the time from about mid-way through the series' seven year run. As stated elsewhere I actually enjoy Endgame even though it was the last TV Borg story in 2001 (Until ENT did their own episode but thats for another discussion) and featured their apparent final end, not counting the endless books that have been brought out since that time.
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Old January 5 2012, 03:20 AM   #422
exodus
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

I don't think they intentionally tried to weaken the Borg.
I think the concept the writers had Voyager exploring was the idea Lt. Eddington started in DS9, about how the Federation isn't much different than the Borg. Voyager was more about humanitizing the Borg and showing that they aren't one big willing, functioning unit but rather billions or people trapped and enslaved by one mind, the Queen. Voyager was much about how Federation life relies allot on technology, Borg life relies allot on technology. Was Admiral Janeway in "Endgame" much different than the Borg Queen in "Unimatrix Zero" when it came to protecting and saving her "family"?

I think this is the point on why we had to encounter and explore the Borg way of life so much on Voyager.
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Old January 5 2012, 06:50 AM   #423
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

I think Voyager totally pooched the Borg, then again I think Voyager is by far the worst of the shows so screwing the Borg is par for the course.

I've even come to appreciate Enterprise a lot more after re-watching it start to finish on DVD (S1 ok, S2 terrible, S3 good, S4 great). I'll be giving Voyager the same chance later this year but I have already seen a lot more of it than I had of Enterprise before re-watching it so I'm not expecting Janeway & Lackeys to get the same reprieve in my eyes that Archer & Co. got.

P.S. Yes, the Borg were meant to be the big, bad, super scary, overwhelming and unbeatable opponent when they were introduced in TNG.
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Old January 5 2012, 02:16 PM   #424
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

The were never meant to be Galactic Enemy No.1 in the first place. They were just supposed to be a tough enemy, not THE enemy.
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Old January 5 2012, 02:30 PM   #425
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Not only were they supposed to be THE ENEMY, what with being foreshadowed in the final episode of Season One TNG, but they were supposed to be Insects.

Accountants.

Fuck'em.
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Old February 13 2012, 08:56 PM   #426
jpch
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

after reading for 30 min im glad that some people are decent enough to know what happened on Voy. and also so many of the comments like ''Voyager destroyed 10 cubes alone'' bla bla bla are totally idiotic remarks mad by people who didn't even watch the show and hate on it. Voyager was always running away from the Borg and barely stood a chance vs a sphere,and when it took on the tactical cube they had Seven of nine expertise as well anti-Borg modifications made by a 29th century drone...also during that battle we saw Voyager making circles and maneuvering around the Tactical cube so fast,that is clearly a tactical advantage unlike the Galaxy who was so fat and slow and barely moved in a battle.
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Old February 13 2012, 09:44 PM   #427
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

jpch wrote: View Post
...unlike the Galaxy who was so fat and slow and barely moved in a battle.
Indeed.

Almost as if the CGI Voyager special-effects from the later seasons were a decade more advanced than the huge physical models used to film the Enterprise-D isn't it?

Although the CGI Galaxies in DS9 moved about quite a bit now I think about it.

Damn those people you mention and their idiotic comments...
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Old February 13 2012, 09:48 PM   #428
You_Will_Fail
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

jpch wrote: View Post
and when it took on the tactical cube they had Seven of nine expertise as well anti-Borg modifications made by a 29th century drone...also during that battle we saw Voyager making circles and maneuvering around the Tactical cube so fast,that is clearly a tactical advantage unlike the Galaxy who was so fat and slow and barely moved in a battle.
Voyager was going to be DESTROYED by a sphere in "Drone" despite the help from a 29th century drone. Voyager taking on a tactical cube in "Unimatrix Zero" was a load of bullsh*t, nothing can change my mind on that. That whole episode was awful and the first truly terrible Borg episode in my opinion (although I thought "Collective" wasn't very good), you can refer to sfdebris's recent review on how inept it was.
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Old February 13 2012, 10:15 PM   #429
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Actually, I think the Sphere from 'Drone' was the one that adapted way too fast to Voyager's attempt at disabling it's engines.
It was nothing more than a gimmick to emulate the 'danger' the Borg presented so that 'One' could sacrifice himself to save the ship asap.
I would at least think the enhancements 'One' did would give the Sphere a pause.

As for Voyager's assault at the Tactical cube... Voyager was barely able to hold on in a firefight with it, plus the cube didn't really see it as a real threat.
And why would it?
Even with the modifications from 'One' and 7 of 9 on-board, Voyager was no match for it - but it WAS able to hold on it's own for a small amount of time (a few minutes) before it retreated - although the queen could have been toying with it for the sake of it.
Plus we saw just how fast the shields (in certain areas) were pierced by the Tactical cube.

And even with the 'liberated sphere', the Cube was receiving more damage, but it was still in a winning position.
The Queen merely destroyed the cube out of pure spite for Janeway's trickery - which was way too emotional on her part.
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Old February 13 2012, 10:29 PM   #430
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

LOL its absurd, your attempts at explaining it away just make me laugh. Sometimes bad writing and continuity is just bad writing and bad continuity. Just call a spade a spade.
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Old February 13 2012, 10:31 PM   #431
Sandoval
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Or a shovel a shovel...
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Old February 13 2012, 10:31 PM   #432
Anwar
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

The Sphere in "Drone" was a Tactical Sphere, equal to a Tactical Cube. It wasn't the same type of small escape vehicle that we saw in FC.
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Old February 13 2012, 11:19 PM   #433
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

You_Will_Fail wrote: View Post
LOL its absurd, your attempts at explaining it away just make me laugh. Sometimes bad writing and continuity is just bad writing and bad continuity. Just call a spade a spade.
Ah I see.
By that analogy, it's just as laughable the Enterprise-D survived the onslaught from the cube's cutting beams in BoBW RIGHT until the part where Data put the Borg 'to sleep'.
Or where the Enterprise-D suffered critical damage from a dingy BoP which realistically should have been destroyed in an opening salvo if Riker was smart enough to order it in the first place.

Or how about the Defiant being 'spared' destruction in it's first confrontation with the Dominion bug ships when the Oddysey was destroyed simply because the 'heroes' were on board?

Or how many times have we heard 'shields cannot survive another hit' and then hearing at least a dozen impact shots?

Point being... my explanation is hardly a 'poor excuse for bad writing'.
Real life is certainly complicated enough to throw numerous wrenches into people's expectations, so why is it so hard to imagine the situation where Voyager went up against the Tactical cube and was able to hold on it's own for a few minutes?
Certainly the smaller ship was seen on the losing side if anything... not on the winning one.
Also... have you even SEEN how the queen behaved all emotional?
Why else would she invoke the cube's self destruct especially when it could have won?

What about First Contact?
Why wasn't the cube destroyed by an entire fleet of SF ships and conveniently waited for the Enterprise to show up and deliver the finishing blow?
Lol...
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Old February 13 2012, 11:51 PM   #434
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

Deks wrote: View Post
so why is it so hard to imagine the situation where Voyager went up against the Tactical cube and was able to hold on it's own for a few minutes?
Because its completely idiotic based on what we've seen of previous encounters with the Borg?
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Old February 13 2012, 11:58 PM   #435
Sandoval
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Re: Why do people keep saying Voyager weakened the Borg?

To be fair Starfleet vesselsdo seem able to last a few minutes against a Borg ship under most circumstances - yeah they get beaten the living shit out of but they don't get blown up immediately.
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