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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old February 8 2012, 07:16 PM   #376
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

I am so happy with the model work and general fx work the crew did. They really did shoot stuff at near-feature quality. The size of the 6 foooter, and detail in the large Borg cube etc. show that they didn't skimp on the details.

Sure, with a different budget and less time constraints (and a 16x9 AR) TNG could really have looked like a feature every week, but Legato, Moore, Curry, Okuda and Sternbach did a fantastic job.
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Old February 8 2012, 11:13 PM   #377
Maxwell Everett
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

Tosk wrote: View Post
You know what I never noticed before? Just as Kurn steps off the transporter pad at the start of Sins of the Father, you can totally see a bunch of wooden scaffolding above the wall of the set.

It was always there, but I guess the added quality helped the detail jump out at me.
Good eye. What's funny is that every time there's a live action shot with VFX, they use the larger image as on the DVD (actually even a bit more, just as you'd expect). Another example is when Riker, Data and Geordie are looking at an LCARS display on the bridge. But when the cut happens, they're back to the overly cropped image that plagues most of the episode.

Roughly 15% of the image is missing on most shots in the Blu-ray version of "Sins." "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Inner Light" look just fine, for the most part. It has to be intentional. I just wonder why they didn't move some of the act one credits up in the frame back to the title safe area. Here are some screenshots of the problem:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=2805

You can also see screenshot comparisons here:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ess=#vergleich
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Last edited by Maxwell Everett; February 8 2012 at 11:31 PM. Reason: Fixed "title safe"
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Old February 8 2012, 11:26 PM   #378
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
Roughly 15% of the image is missing on most shots in the Blu-ray version of "Sins." "Encounter at Farpoint" and "The Inner Light" look just fine, for the most part. It has to be intentional. I just wonder why they didn't move some of the act one credits up in the frame back to the tile safe area. Here are some screenshots of the problem:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=2805

You can also see screenshot comparisons here:

http://www.caps-a-holic.com/hd_vergl...ess=#vergleich
Interesting, I had noticed that the credits seemed a bit too far down the screen but didn't pick up on the cropping for the rest of the episode!
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Old February 8 2012, 11:36 PM   #379
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

[QUOTE=davejames;5778550]
NewHorizon wrote: View Post
The only thing that might need to be improved is that Borg interior shot, where we pull back to see more of the hive. All it should really take is a small color correction though, to better blend together the set and painting.

But yeah, the actual Borg model and other effects in that episode hold up a lot better than I remembered.
Yeah, little touches like that would make all the difference. When I think back on it, Q-Who was actually the very first episode of TNG that I ever saw. I grew up in the country where we only had two channels available to us. Neither channel carried TNG. My friend a half hour away did get a station that carried it and he recorded a few episodes for me. Q-Who being the first. I fell in love with the show immediately.
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Old February 8 2012, 11:43 PM   #380
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

Seems like a pretty minor issue to me. But then, I've never been as obsessed with the "whole image" thing like others here.

If we're talking about a Stanley Kubrick movie, where every shot is a carefully composed work of art, then of course. But not an episode of TNG.
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Old February 8 2012, 11:56 PM   #381
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

Something I've just picked up watching a comparison of the first 10 minutes of The Inner Light (DVD vs BD) on YouTube, in the shot of Picard looking over the cliff at the village near the start, he's a holding a hat in his left hand, but not in the previous or next shot!


Might be an old one (or mentioned previously in this thread), but never noticed before.

Also noticed via info on the video that there's a typo in one of the credits for the same episode ("Telelay by..."), tut tut!
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Old February 8 2012, 11:57 PM   #382
Maxwell Everett
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

davejames wrote: View Post
Seems like a pretty minor issue to me. But then, I've never been as obsessed with the "whole image" thing like others here.

If we're talking about a Stanley Kubrick movie, where every shot is a carefully composed work of art, then of course. But not an episode of TNG.
It only really becomes an issue with people who have an HDTV with more than 5% overscan. For instance, on my bedroom HDTV, some of the credits in "Sins" sit right at the bottom of the frame and the very top of heads are slightly chopped off even in wide shots! In other words, the head room is gone. Definitely not the intended framing. This is why filmmakers shoot with these tolerances and safe areas in mind. Not every TV is the same. Not every projectionist is on the ball.

I'm really more puzzled than anything. Why are the pilot and "Inner Light" pretty much the same as the DVD, giving us a bit more image in most cases and this episode rather severely cropped? Either the episode was telecined incorrectly back in 1990, or today in 2011. Only one can be correct and I'm just wondering which one.

I figured this was kind of a fast moving production line and everything would be done consistently for the most part.
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Old February 9 2012, 02:38 AM   #383
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

Still on a re-watch, I guess for now I'll post random thoughts on episodes in expectation for how they'll turn out on Blu-Ray.

I just watched "The Booby Trap" and it's actually amazing how good the SFX are in it. I think some of the model shots of the Enterprise maneuvering through the asteroid field (this would be 6' model in most shots) looks great and really shows of some of the nicest angles of the ship and the near "art-deco"-ness of her design.

Also as noted before the music in this episode is just fantastic and pretty much how the music should have been for the series as a whole instead of being reduced to "sonic wallpaper." I don't think the music in the episode takes away from what is going on on screen at all and actually enhances things. I can't imagine any lesser level of music in this episode without harming the episode in some manner.

I do think Geordi's behavior in this episode is... odd. He spends a lot of time in the holodeck with the prototype designs to solve the problem and, of course, uses the help of a simulation of a junior engineer on the Enterprise's team. (Leah.) It's odd on a ship filled with "the best and brightest" he has to resort to using a simulation to do things. I get the story rules all but it would have made more sense for him and a team of engineers to be in the Utopia Planitia room working on a solution with the Brahms facsimile. There's also a tone to Picard's voice as he talks and interacts with Geordi in this episode both in the way he visits Geordi on the holodeck and talks to him over the com-system before the final solution is reached; he almost sounds disappointed in his chief engineer dicking around in a holodeck simulation instead of working with his staff. But, I guess, given the dire circumstances they were in...
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Old February 9 2012, 03:17 AM   #384
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

If you watch Farpoint, when Picard, Troi and Riker are in Zorn's office, if you look at Troi's headband, in every close up shot on the Blu-Ray her headband goes into the top casing of the TV, but on the DVD there is quite a bit of open space between the top of her head and the TV casing.


Maxwell Everett wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
Seems like a pretty minor issue to me. But then, I've never been as obsessed with the "whole image" thing like others here.

If we're talking about a Stanley Kubrick movie, where every shot is a carefully composed work of art, then of course. But not an episode of TNG.
It only really becomes an issue with people who have an HDTV with more than 5% overscan. For instance, on my bedroom HDTV, some of the credits in "Sins" sit right at the bottom of the frame and the very top of heads are slightly chopped off even in wide shots! In other words, the head room is gone. Definitely not the intended framing. This is why filmmakers shoot with these tolerances and safe areas in mind. Not every TV is the same. Not every projectionist is on the ball.

I'm really more puzzled than anything. Why are the pilot and "Inner Light" pretty much the same as the DVD, giving us a bit more image in most cases and this episode rather severely cropped? Either the episode was telecined incorrectly back in 1990, or today in 2011. Only one can be correct and I'm just wondering which one.

I figured this was kind of a fast moving production line and everything would be done consistently for the most part.
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Old February 9 2012, 04:10 AM   #385
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

I thought there was something weird about Sins of the Father.

I hope there is some way to let CBS know that the framing is off in that episode. I was under the impression from Farpoint and Inner Light that we were getting slightly more of the image. Certainly shouldn't be getting less.
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Old February 9 2012, 04:44 AM   #386
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

davejames wrote: View Post
The only thing that might need to be improved is that Borg interior shot, where we pull back to see more of the hive. All it should really take is a small color correction though, to better blend together the set and painting.
Yeah, sure, retouch and remaster and whatnot, I was more saying that I think it'd be a mistake to replace the odd, off-kilter 'battle scenes' in that episode (where the Enterprise and cube just sort of stand there looking at each other, most of the time) with a more modern interpretation (The Enterprise whizzing past doing strafing runs and so forth). I think a big part of that episode's charm is its stateliness- the tension comes from the strange absence of action, the utter lack of concern from the Borg.

The 'pull-out' shot of the cube interior actually made me say: "Woah!" when I first saw it- I don't see the need to replace it, beyond the rescanning and remastering of the original plates.
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Old February 9 2012, 04:46 AM   #387
Maxwell Everett
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

tomswift2002 wrote: View Post
If you watch Farpoint, when Picard, Troi and Riker are in Zorn's office, if you look at Troi's headband, in every close up shot on the Blu-Ray her headband goes into the top casing of the TV, but on the DVD there is quite a bit of open space between the top of her head and the TV casing.
You're right, the framing is slightly different there. But in this case I'm okay with it because they are just framing down slightly, rather than cropping the entire image on all sides. Notice how we see more of her com badge as a result? As long as they take their new TV extraction from within the Academy aperture area, the picture should still look okay and be within the tolerances that the filmmakers intended.

DVD:
http://tng.trekcore.com/gallery/albu...point2_039.jpg

Blu-ray:
http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x...int_hd_537.jpg
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Old February 9 2012, 06:50 AM   #388
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

Could the framing issue be due to damage of the original negative for that episode? Maybe the edges had damage that was too expensive to restore, so a decision was made to crop instead?
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Old February 9 2012, 07:11 AM   #389
Maxwell Everett
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

GalaxyX wrote: View Post
Could the framing issue be due to damage of the original negative for that episode? Maybe the edges had damage that was too expensive to restore, so a decision was made to crop instead?
It's certainly possible, but there's a few things I can think of which make that rather unlikely:

  • The TV Transmitted Area they're supposed to be using is already set back pretty far from the edges of the negative.
  • Every time a live-action VFX shot is shown, they consistently go back to the larger DVD equivalent area; no problem there.
  • They probably wouldn't have chosen the episode for the sampler in the first place if they noticed it had significant damage.
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Last edited by Maxwell Everett; February 9 2012 at 07:23 AM.
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Old February 9 2012, 10:00 AM   #390
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Re: The OFFICIAL STNG Next Level Bluray watch and review thread

Destructor wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
The only thing that might need to be improved is that Borg interior shot, where we pull back to see more of the hive. All it should really take is a small color correction though, to better blend together the set and painting.
Yeah, sure, retouch and remaster and whatnot, I was more saying that I think it'd be a mistake to replace the odd, off-kilter 'battle scenes' in that episode (where the Enterprise and cube just sort of stand there looking at each other, most of the time) with a more modern interpretation (The Enterprise whizzing past doing strafing runs and so forth). I think a big part of that episode's charm is its stateliness- the tension comes from the strange absence of action, the utter lack of concern from the Borg.

The 'pull-out' shot of the cube interior actually made me say: "Woah!" when I first saw it- I don't see the need to replace it, beyond the rescanning and remastering of the original plates.
Actually I think there's one other thing I might try to fix-- the strange part where Data keeps firing in the completely wrong place while trying to destroy the Borg's tractor beam.

Not really sure how you'd fix that though. Perhaps have a beam emitting from each of those three places he fires at? You obviously can't direct all the fire at just the one area, because you'd still have the two other giant craters to explain...
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