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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

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Old February 2 2012, 10:32 PM   #31
Phillip Culley
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

The audio exists for all the missing episodes; if anything is missing then we're talking about brief cliffhanger reprises which are duplicated on the episodes surrounding it.

Certainly The Ice Warriors has a complete soundtrack - the 17 minute long recon was one specially made for the VHS release when it was determined that a full-length reconstruction would be impractical for general release, however the complete soundtrack was included as a bonus CD with the release. Numerous complete recons of the missing Ice Warriors episodes have been made over the years.

And there are 6 complete Troughtons (The Tomb of the Cybermen, The Dominators, The Mind Robber, The Krotons, The Seeds of Death and The War Games) as well as 2 almost complete (The Ice Warriors and The Invasion, both of which are missing 2 episodes out of 6 and 8 respectively). All the other stories have at most 50% existing and aside from the recently-discovered second episode of The Underwater Menace have all been released on Lost in Time.
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Old February 2 2012, 10:38 PM   #32
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

Oh, crud, how, did I forget about Tomb of the Cybermen being complete
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Old February 4 2012, 01:20 AM   #33
Hober Mallow
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

Okay, just watched "Edge" last night.

Interesting, to say the least. I'm reminded of TNG, where very often the money-saving episodes ("The Drumhead," "The First Duty") turn out to be the strongest character pieces of the series. Lots of surprises for me in this episode. Mainly, I'm surprised such a complex plot could make it in a children's show back in the 60s. We get the first indication that the Tardis is more than just a machine. The surprise, to me, though, is that the Doctor doesn't seem to know anything about this. Curiouser and couriouser. And we get the first hint that the Doctor has had a longer history of getting into trouble and finding adventure in space and time before Ian and Barbara came along.

The performances were all good. Who knew Susan could be so frightening? It was essential for a plot set entirely within the confines of the Tardis set that the performances carry the story, and they did. And -- call me crazy -- but I'm beginning to find Barbara extremely attractive.

The Marco Polo reconstruction was interesting. It doesn't seem like near enough material for a seven-episode arc, or whatever it was. I'm wondering if it would have plodded along at a snail's pace? In any case, it was interesting enough as a condensced version, and I thought the reconstruction was put together well with the stills, audio, and limited subtitles.

I have a question, though -- are other reconstructions included on the DVD sets as special features? Or was this just a special case on the DOCTOR WHO: THE BEGINNING set. I'm hoping many, most, or all missing episode reconstructions are included on the DVDs. In that case, it would be worth it for me to order all the DVDs from Netflix rather than stream the ones available for streaming.

Phillip Culley wrote: View Post
The audio exists for all the missing episodes; if anything is missing then we're talking about brief cliffhanger reprises which are duplicated on the episodes surrounding it.
In a way, that's too bad, because I was always tantalized by the possibility there could have something in those missing episodes that would totally contradict everything about DOCTOR WHO we learned later. Like, I always thought it would be funny if a missing episode were found in which Hartnell's Doctor confesses to someone that he's a full-blooded human from the year 4536. I guess there's no chance of that, then. Not that fans wouldn't come up with brilliant explanations to explain the line away, like the infamous "half-human" line from the 1996 movie.
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Old February 4 2012, 02:58 AM   #34
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

I disagree with first hint Doctor has been getting into trouble, because before Barbara and Ian's first adventure, Susan said in the Unearthly Child Earth 1960s was her favorite place, that implies she's had other adventures to compare with.

I don't see any problem with a straight man finding Barbara Attractive, no reason to declare your possible insanity over it.
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Old February 4 2012, 05:14 AM   #35
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
I have a question, though -- are other reconstructions included on the DVD sets as special features? Or was this just a special case on the DOCTOR WHO: THE BEGINNING set. I'm hoping many, most, or all missing episode reconstructions are included on the DVDs. In that case, it would be worth it for me to order all the DVDs from Netflix rather than stream the ones available for streaming.
It was a one-off for The Beginning - the guy in charge of the DVDs (who took over about a year later) wasn't a fan of reconstructions; much preferring the alternative of animations (as seen on The Invasion and the forthcoming Reign of Terror DVDs). There was a 45-ish minute reconstruction of Galaxy 4 planned for the Time Meddler DVD, however this was unfortunately removed at the last minute and now languishes on a shelf somewhere.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
In a way, that's too bad, because I was always tantalized by the possibility there could have something in those missing episodes that would totally contradict everything about DOCTOR WHO we learned later. Like, I always thought it would be funny if a missing episode were found in which Hartnell's Doctor confesses to someone that he's a full-blooded human from the year 4536. I guess there's no chance of that, then. Not that fans wouldn't come up with brilliant explanations to explain the line away, like the infamous "half-human" line from the 1996 movie.
If the soundtracks didn't exist, we would still have the camera scripts or similar materials - there's little chance of something like that coming out of left-field
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Old February 4 2012, 06:30 AM   #36
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
The Marco Polo reconstruction was interesting. It doesn't seem like near enough material for a seven-episode arc, or whatever it was. I'm wondering if it would have plodded along at a snail's pace? In any case, it was interesting enough as a condensced version, and I thought the reconstruction was put together well with the stills, audio, and limited subtitles.
It wasn't that condensed. I mean the full audio is still there, the video is just a clip show.

Hober Mallow wrote: View Post
In a way, that's too bad, because I was always tantalized by the possibility there could have something in those missing episodes that would totally contradict everything about DOCTOR WHO we learned later. Like, I always thought it would be funny if a missing episode were found in which Hartnell's Doctor confesses to someone that he's a full-blooded human from the year 4536. I guess there's no chance of that, then. Not that fans wouldn't come up with brilliant explanations to explain the line away, like the infamous "half-human" line from the 1996 movie.
Well he would have to mime it then, because the full audio tracks aren't lost.

I just realized I don't actually have any of the lost episodes besides Marco Polo and The Crusades. A lot of them seem to be on Youtube though so I'll get them there.

Edge of Destruction I really liked for as short as it was. It was pretty creepy for one, and I thought it was cool to have a whole story take place in the Tardis.
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Old February 4 2012, 09:01 AM   #37
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

Finished "Keys Of Marinus".....tomorrow "The Aztecs" begins.

One thing that has changed, is my opinion of Susan. As I was building my Doctor Who collection, I was buying from different eras and watching them non-sequentially. And I had no real issues with Susan, I really liked her since she was the Doctors grand daughter. However watching them in order, Susan really grates on me. Not the actress, the portrayal.


It's the constant freak outs and near break downs that get on my nerves. I can understand being frightened but she freaks out and too often has to be held by another character. I always liked Vickie, and now I realize she's closer to how Susan *should've* been portrayed. She was smart, and came off as someone beyond our time. Sure, the occasional screamy stuff....but no where near the freak outs that Susan has.

IIRC, wasn't this the reason that Carol Ann Ford left?
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Old February 4 2012, 04:54 PM   #38
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

I was thinking she does overact a lot of the time. So far it's only been in The Sensorites that she seems to be anything more than an Earth child. At first I thought maybe she was adopted.

On a side note, I was looking through a list of episodes and came across The Sontaran Experiment which I recognized as something I'd seen on TV when I must have been five or so. I guess it must have been the first episode of Doctor Who I'd ever seen, and I had no idea what it was. I can't wait to get there in my watchthrough.
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Old February 4 2012, 08:05 PM   #39
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

The Lensman wrote: View Post
Finished "Keys Of Marinus".....tomorrow "The Aztecs" begins.

One thing that has changed, is my opinion of Susan. As I was building my Doctor Who collection, I was buying from different eras and watching them non-sequentially. And I had no real issues with Susan, I really liked her since she was the Doctors grand daughter. However watching them in order, Susan really grates on me. Not the actress, the portrayal.


It's the constant freak outs and near break downs that get on my nerves. I can understand being frightened but she freaks out and too often has to be held by another character. I always liked Vickie, and now I realize she's closer to how Susan *should've* been portrayed. She was smart, and came off as someone beyond our time. Sure, the occasional screamy stuff....but no where near the freak outs that Susan has.

IIRC, wasn't this the reason that Carol Ann Ford left?
The Aztecs is my Favorite Historical, and one of my Favorite of all the Hartnell Stories, I hope you enjoy it.

Regarding Susan, yea, her problem was that she was written as a 10 or 12 year old, and Carole Anne Ford didn't look a day under 16, and could've played up to 25 convincingly. This is one thing the Cushing Movies fixed, they actually had Susan played by an appropriately aged actress.. Additionally, being a Time Traveler, who had obviously travelled with the Doctor, prior to settling down in 1963 on (Since Earth 1960s was her favorite place, she must have other adventures to compare it to) Susan should've been better acclimated, and not such a mess, even the most scared Companions grow and become more acclimated over time. Susan is fine in the Doctor Who Unbound Audios and in the Five Doctors (And in her last story, when she all of a sudden grew up), the problem was with writing her as a 10 or 12 year most of the time, but, being played by Carole Anne Ford, IMHO.
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Old February 4 2012, 10:03 PM   #40
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

Yeah Carol Ann Ford was in her early 20s when she left the series, I think she was just tired of playing a teenager.
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Old February 5 2012, 10:06 AM   #41
Hober Mallow
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

I'd never seen Susan in a Doctor Who story before I started this watch-thru, and I'll say although I've noticed the over-the-top freakouts, it doesn't really bother me. It's pretty much what I expected. She's the kid who's supposed to get into trouble and scream a lot, the viewpoint character for the original intended audience.
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Old February 6 2012, 09:16 PM   #42
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

Hober, as part of your ongoing viewing, have you seen the so-called "unaired pilot"? It's basically "An Unearthly Child" but with a few minor "tweaks". One notable bit was a "one shot" entrance sequence stepping into the TARDIS. The doors of the police box open and the camera follows Ian and Barbara into the console room. Very ambitious cinematography given the insanely tight schedule and the size of the cameras.

Another difference was the exchanges between the Doctor and Susan once Ian and Barbara force their way inside the capsule. Susan makes some comments that suggest she might be of "royalty". Afterwards she sits upon the large wooden chair seen the aired "cut" with a rather regal "air" almost bordering upon a "cold" sense of superiority.

Had that remained in the final version, later writers may have revealed a somewhat different past for the Doctor and Susan.

Sincerely,

Bill
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Old February 8 2012, 02:06 AM   #43
Hober Mallow
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

Bill, yeah I saw that. I'm glad the producers shelved some of their early ideas, like the Doctor being a regressive trying to stop the advancement of technology after traveling to his perfect time in the past.
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Old February 8 2012, 02:14 AM   #44
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

The Lensman wrote: View Post
However watching them in order, Susan really grates on me.
Welcome to the club.
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Old February 8 2012, 05:48 PM   #45
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Re: Doctor Who, first time through

One poi nt about Susan: she tends to freak out in jungles or other wild conditions (An Unearthly Child, Daleks, Marinus), but is perfectly calm in unfamiliar futuristic cities (The Daleks again, where it's Barbara who panics in the Dalek city).
Sort of works for someone who presumably grew up int eh Time Lord citadel.
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